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Message
Honest Zion talk for Emotional Intelligent Folks
Posted on 1/17/21 at 10:18 am
Posted on 1/17/21 at 10:18 am
I hate the fact that MM said this week's ago in a pessimmistic tone which turned people away and made folks defensive, but he was 100 percent right with the facts he said about Zion and the assessments we all thought about him from Duke to the NBA. Zion williamson so far is not the same player we expected, and to be honest if I knew so far that this would be who we were getting I would have EASILY drafted Ja Morant over Zion. I feel like a few people only have the stones to say that and I'm honestly one of them.
It's more than Zion tightening his handles, or learning defense, getting a jump shot, etc it's just his on court character so far that turned me off from him as well as interviews. He just so far doesn't scream leader, person who leave it all on the court, passionate gamer, etc like he showed at Duke. And if anyone feels that is the same person they are lying to themselves.
I disagree with MM assessment that he lost his love for basketball, I believe it's more that Zion needs a sports psychologist to help with trusting his body and the mental block of preservation with his health. It's also possible with the surgery he lost his explosion or Pelicans medical staff at the time told him to preserve his movement with the whole "learn how to move kinetics" thing so it can honestly be the Pelicans organization telling Z to not move as freely to preserve his overall longevity.
The question is if this is true, is this just a early thing for his career or is this a forever thing. Also what kind of habits will that create with a young kid? With all this in mind, it just screams that Duke Zion is likely dead due to the injury and how his body is constructed, and this new heavier slower version of Zion is TBH not the type of player I feel comfortable in building a franchise around.
If I knew this will be Zion future projection a more polished athletic version of Zach Randolph, I will trade Zion while he is hot.
If I'm investing in a future, I want my franchise to be a better leader, have way less movement limitations, and can play defense. But thats just me.
It's more than Zion tightening his handles, or learning defense, getting a jump shot, etc it's just his on court character so far that turned me off from him as well as interviews. He just so far doesn't scream leader, person who leave it all on the court, passionate gamer, etc like he showed at Duke. And if anyone feels that is the same person they are lying to themselves.
I disagree with MM assessment that he lost his love for basketball, I believe it's more that Zion needs a sports psychologist to help with trusting his body and the mental block of preservation with his health. It's also possible with the surgery he lost his explosion or Pelicans medical staff at the time told him to preserve his movement with the whole "learn how to move kinetics" thing so it can honestly be the Pelicans organization telling Z to not move as freely to preserve his overall longevity.
The question is if this is true, is this just a early thing for his career or is this a forever thing. Also what kind of habits will that create with a young kid? With all this in mind, it just screams that Duke Zion is likely dead due to the injury and how his body is constructed, and this new heavier slower version of Zion is TBH not the type of player I feel comfortable in building a franchise around.
If I knew this will be Zion future projection a more polished athletic version of Zach Randolph, I will trade Zion while he is hot.
If I'm investing in a future, I want my franchise to be a better leader, have way less movement limitations, and can play defense. But thats just me.
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Posted on 1/17/21 at 10:28 am to Silverfoxx
You are asking for emotional intelligence and then subsequently go on a rambling mess of post based on a player that has only played 34 games and done so in incredibly less than ideal circumstances(2 coaches, no proper offseason, a roster that does not compliment him well). Reading completely unsupported head cannon based on interviews and assumptions and ignoring others(like the praise he has gotten from coaches for being an increasingly great communicator and a gym ethic that only BI could claim to rival)
Zion is and continues to be on a historical pace as a player. In the company of guys like Shaq and other all time greats with his early career output.
The ceiling for Ja was always best point guard in the league and he may get it one day. The expectation for Zion was always he would be slower to develop out his game but has enough of a dominating capacity that he would help teams win right away, which is all true and continues to be.
Zion is and continues to be on a historical pace as a player. In the company of guys like Shaq and other all time greats with his early career output.
The ceiling for Ja was always best point guard in the league and he may get it one day. The expectation for Zion was always he would be slower to develop out his game but has enough of a dominating capacity that he would help teams win right away, which is all true and continues to be.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 10:28 am to Silverfoxx
First downvote 
Posted on 1/17/21 at 10:29 am to Silverfoxx
I'm willing to give him some slack and see what his on-court demeanor is when he's playing in front of more than 400 people
Posted on 1/17/21 at 10:31 am to Silverfoxx
I don't think you understand the value of Zion. He is a marketing goldmine. He can literally be the face of the league. We have never had someone so likable and with such charisma. It doesn't matter if he never becomes a great player. He gives us so much more. He is the next Blake Griffin. We can win with that and be a flagship franchise built around him.
Morant is great and perhaps will have a better career. But people don't know him and unless he starts winning rings, will never be the star that Zion is. That is why you take guys in the top 3. You want a Superstar.
I can list out 10 things wrong with this franchise. Anything involving Zion wouldn't crack that list. He needs to get in better shape and find joy in the game. Those are easily solvable.
Morant is great and perhaps will have a better career. But people don't know him and unless he starts winning rings, will never be the star that Zion is. That is why you take guys in the top 3. You want a Superstar.
I can list out 10 things wrong with this franchise. Anything involving Zion wouldn't crack that list. He needs to get in better shape and find joy in the game. Those are easily solvable.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:06 am to Silverfoxx
Your OP started well, but you went off the deep end in a couple of spots, so this thread likely won't go the way you wanted it to, and rightfully so.
But yes, I do think that anyone who refuses to recognize some things and refuses to have concerns about certain aspects of Zion's game is just being blind to what they're seeing.
To this point, Zion is not what we thought he'd be specifically on the defensive side of the ball. Mainly defense and effort, we all thought we were getting a dude who could come in and immediately make a solid impact on defense. Surely, every rookie or youngster will struggle with assignments and look a bit lost at times, but that's not the issue. He's legit our worst defensive player on our team at this point. Same with effort, we all watched him from Duke, and this dude had a motor, he just played with so much energy on defense, and now it's pretty apparent he's displaying a lack of effort on defense.
Why is his defense and effort so bad on that side of the court? That's the million dollar question, I have no idea. But I do think anyone who has no concerns at all about that is just fooling themselves.
But to go back to my first paragraph, the Zach Randolph line and talking about trading him, that's gonna derail this thread for you.
But yes, I do think that anyone who refuses to recognize some things and refuses to have concerns about certain aspects of Zion's game is just being blind to what they're seeing.
To this point, Zion is not what we thought he'd be specifically on the defensive side of the ball. Mainly defense and effort, we all thought we were getting a dude who could come in and immediately make a solid impact on defense. Surely, every rookie or youngster will struggle with assignments and look a bit lost at times, but that's not the issue. He's legit our worst defensive player on our team at this point. Same with effort, we all watched him from Duke, and this dude had a motor, he just played with so much energy on defense, and now it's pretty apparent he's displaying a lack of effort on defense.
Why is his defense and effort so bad on that side of the court? That's the million dollar question, I have no idea. But I do think anyone who has no concerns at all about that is just fooling themselves.
But to go back to my first paragraph, the Zach Randolph line and talking about trading him, that's gonna derail this thread for you.
This post was edited on 1/17/21 at 11:09 am
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:09 am to Silverfoxx
quote:
It's also possible with the surgery he lost his explosion or Pelicans medical staff at the time told him to preserve his movement with the whole "learn how to move kinetics" thing so it can honestly be the Pelicans organization telling Z to not move as freely to preserve his overall longevity.
I think it’s more of him being about 15-20lbs heavier than he was at duke. He was more lean at duke and it shows. That being said he still hasn’t even played half of a normal regular season so I’ll wait to judge lol
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:09 am to Bronc
quote:
The expectation for Zion was always he would be slower to develop out his game
i don't think this was the expectation pre-injury
like i said the other day, i'm not saying Zion is a bust (which is how most people interpret any sort of criticism of his development), but he simply is not nearly the prospect we thought he was when we got the #1 pick. just for some photographic evidence, does anyone think we ever see THIS Zion in a Pels uniform?
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:11 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:He actually had a similar block last year for the Pels.
i don't think this was the expectation pre-injury
like i said the other day, i'm not saying Zion is a bust (which is how most people interpret any sort of criticism of his development), but he simply is not nearly the prospect we thought he was when we got the #1 pick. just for some photographic evidence, does anyone think we ever see THIS Zion in a Pels uniform?
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:11 am to Silverfoxx
This is a ridiculous post.
You honestly can’t see how good Zion is? He has been basically unstoppable on offense except when the whole defense collapses on him. We haven’t had the role players who are making teams pay for that. This is what Lebron does. He completely collapses a defense and kicks out for open 3 pt shots.
Our team is the worst 3 pt shooting team in the league. This is because of the horrible shooting from Redick, Ball, Hart, and Melli. Some decent 3 pt shooting would completely turn the projection of this team around. I think NAW starting will help a ton.
The Laker game was bs because the refs totally took it over, but I expect NAW to make a huge impact. I am interested to see more from Lewis.
You honestly can’t see how good Zion is? He has been basically unstoppable on offense except when the whole defense collapses on him. We haven’t had the role players who are making teams pay for that. This is what Lebron does. He completely collapses a defense and kicks out for open 3 pt shots.
Our team is the worst 3 pt shooting team in the league. This is because of the horrible shooting from Redick, Ball, Hart, and Melli. Some decent 3 pt shooting would completely turn the projection of this team around. I think NAW starting will help a ton.
The Laker game was bs because the refs totally took it over, but I expect NAW to make a huge impact. I am interested to see more from Lewis.
This post was edited on 1/17/21 at 11:12 am
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:12 am to brmark70816
quote:
He is the next Blake Griffin.
that's where i went in the last thread. their 2nd year (with both respective 1sts being somewhat lost to injury) is similar
but that still is kind of my point. on the level of player, we thought he'd be much more lebron than griffin. now being griffin is still a great player and obviously worthy of the #1 pick, but it isn't the generational guy we all thought we were getting
how much of that is the injury, SVG, or Zion? we will probably not know anytime soon (possibly ever)
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:12 am to NOSHAU
quote:
He actually had a similar block last year for the Pels.
i should have added "in the future" before the question mark
like i said in the last thread, he's regressed since last year
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:14 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:Yep, that's what I mentioned.
but he simply is not nearly the prospect we thought he was when we got the #1 pick
And I do think it's 100% fair to say this through 35 game, because there are things in his game right now that he is just plain awful at, and that's putting it nicely. And those same aspects were things he excelled in college and we should be seeing glimpses of, and we're simply not.
And those things I'm speaking of is defense, defensive IQ, and effort on D. We're honestly seeing a guy who is just really bad at all 3 of those things, and we thought we were getting a dude who would be a stud on that side of the ball and while learning as a young player could still make an immediate impact on D.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:15 am to SlowFlowPro
Zion’s skill level is off the charts. I think people are underestimating that. Players do not just do the things Zion does offensively with so little shooting around him.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:15 am to NOSHAU
quote:If you mean the block htat went into like the 6th row, it was a great block, but nothing at all like that block in the gif. Not even close IMO.
He actually had a similar block last year for the Pels.
Pretty sure it wasn't a 3 pointer as well, and definitely certain he didn't leap like he did in that gif.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:17 am to shel311
People can not expect a rookie to dominate the NBA the way they dominated college basketball immediately.
The gap between college basketball and the NBA is massive. Zion has shown generational talent already.
The gap between college basketball and the NBA is massive. Zion has shown generational talent already.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:18 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:He has things he needs to work on offense(mainly passing and handles) but I'm not really concerned about that, those things do take time to learn.
Players do not just do the things Zion does offensively with so little shooting around him.
It's the defensive side of the ball that's the issue. All the good he does on offense, he gives a shite ton of it back on the defensive side of the ball.
That and conditioning. JHingle posted a Zion/Duke highlight reel from Youtube yesterday, and he just looks so much leaner, he has to be 20-30lbs heavier now than he was at Duke. I keep hearing it's only been 35 games, but he's been with us for probably almost 1.5 years now, how long will it take for him to be in good condition, and why can't he have the same build/look/explosiveness that he did just 2 years ago? Those are legit concerns.
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
like i said in the last thread, he's regressed since last year
Zion hasn't regressed. He's playing in a completely new system
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:19 am to brmark70816
quote:yeah that’s not happening unless something with him drastically changes. He’s not the same show stopper he was at Duke.
He can literally be the face of the league
Posted on 1/17/21 at 11:21 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
like i said the other day, i'm not saying Zion is a bust (which is how most people interpret any sort of criticism of his development), but he simply is not nearly the prospect we thought he was when we got the #1 pick. just for some photographic evidence, does anyone think we ever see THIS Zion in a Pels uniform?
He's literally still rising when he blocks that. One of the most insanely athletic plays I've ever seen
Right now, his arse is about twice as fat as it was there.
Pretty sure the extra weight is the thing holding him back
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