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What is your definition of socialism? And why or why not is it an effective system?
Posted on 1/16/21 at 6:56 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 6:56 pm
Leftist here. I’m a long-time lurker, but I like to learn more about the perspective on the opposite aisle.
48
Posted on 1/16/21 at 6:58 pm to PacMan01
Government ownership of industry, no property rights, centralized planned economy.
It fails because it refuses to recognize incentive structures that are inescapably part of being human.
It fails because it refuses to recognize incentive structures that are inescapably part of being human.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 6:59 pm to PacMan01
Well the mountains of dead bodies to enforce your ideas is a start
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:00 pm to PacMan01
quote:
Leftist here. I’m a long-time lurker, but I like to learn more about the perspective on the opposite aisle.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely, especially when elections are rigged so that it is impervious to challenge.
Who do you trust to have dominion over you FOREVER and to be kind and benevolent about it?
The fundamental vileness of socialism has nothing to do with policy, it has to do with aspects of human nature that should be obvious even to halfwits.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:01 pm to PacMan01
quote:
What is your definition of socialism? And why or why not is it an effective system?
Socialism = Pathetic losers needing the productive members of society to take care of their worthless asses.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:01 pm to PacMan01
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:02 pm to PacMan01
Socialism - government control of the means of production (which in America is effectively accomplished by excess taxation and regulation), characterized by policies that systematically redistribute wealth.
It succeeds, in Democracies, by buying votes using other peoples' money.
It doesn't work, because once DC decides they can take money to "redistribute it":
1) Even if they're honest, they don't have the data to correctly allocate resources, and
2) More likely, once they take taxpayer money, they'd rather keep it for themselves.
It succeeds, in Democracies, by buying votes using other peoples' money.
It doesn't work, because once DC decides they can take money to "redistribute it":
1) Even if they're honest, they don't have the data to correctly allocate resources, and
2) More likely, once they take taxpayer money, they'd rather keep it for themselves.
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 7:04 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:04 pm to PacMan01
*Venezuela*
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:04 pm to PacMan01
because it killed two hundred million people last century is a good start 
Its not an effective system for me because I don't care about and should have zero responsibility for people I don't want to.
Many who choose to be lazy, obese, poor, etc.
Its not an effective system for me because I don't care about and should have zero responsibility for people I don't want to.
Many who choose to be lazy, obese, poor, etc.
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 7:05 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:05 pm to PacMan01
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:06 pm to PacMan01
This country led the world in innovation due to capitalism. It rewards innovation.
Imagine if you were in a class and the teacher said at the beginning everyone gets a C because we treat everyone equally.
What’s the incentive to go for an A? That’s socialism.
Yes, there are winners and losers in capitalism. Anti-capitalists hate that there are losers. But you can’t have one without the other.
Imagine if you were in a class and the teacher said at the beginning everyone gets a C because we treat everyone equally.
What’s the incentive to go for an A? That’s socialism.
Yes, there are winners and losers in capitalism. Anti-capitalists hate that there are losers. But you can’t have one without the other.
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 7:08 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:07 pm to PacMan01
Prepare to go the store at times and it's completely out of milk or bread.
Visiting a hospital 6 times for the same case of flu is nice.
6 dollars a gallon of gas.
Your kid scores 2 goals in the first minutes in whatever sport, so now he has to sit for the rest of the game so that Karen's kid gets to play.
2 years later, wife, a government employee who was hurt at work still has not had knee surgery. Doc recommended surgery shortly after the incident.
Good news is my 3 month old puppy is 10 times more documented and has more identification than the average Democrat voter.
Visiting a hospital 6 times for the same case of flu is nice.
6 dollars a gallon of gas.
Your kid scores 2 goals in the first minutes in whatever sport, so now he has to sit for the rest of the game so that Karen's kid gets to play.
2 years later, wife, a government employee who was hurt at work still has not had knee surgery. Doc recommended surgery shortly after the incident.
Good news is my 3 month old puppy is 10 times more documented and has more identification than the average Democrat voter.
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 7:09 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:12 pm to PacMan01
quote:
Leftist here. I’m a long-time lurker, but I like to learn more about the perspective on the opposite aisle.
Answer this, OP...
Why do you think economic transactions should be involuntary?
Capitalism - competitive capitalism (not the cronyism we have now) is a voluntary exchange between willing parties.
It's literally the most moral form of structuring an economy in human history.
Is it perfect? No, because dumb people make bad choices. But those are THEIR choices.
Empirical evidence is crystal clear. Nowhere in human history has any system of economics created more wealth for the average poor person than capitalism.
Ever seen a Ugandan loot a Walmart to steal big screen TVs and live streaming it on their iPhone? No, you haven't.
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 7:13 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:14 pm to PacMan01
Further to my list. Finn's have a saying. There are only 2 ways to get rich in Finland. Win the euro jackpot or become a politician.
Have a friend who owns a computer software company. He had to declare bankruptcy here. Then moved his company to China and now is a millionaire.
Have a friend who owns a computer software company. He had to declare bankruptcy here. Then moved his company to China and now is a millionaire.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:17 pm to PacMan01
Massive wealth redistribution doesn't work because you start to destroy the profit motive and all incentive. If the government confiscates all of Jeff Bezos' wealth, who would want to spend their life building an empire?
Capitalism isn't a perfect system but it's created the greatest standard of living in human history.
Capitalism isn't a perfect system but it's created the greatest standard of living in human history.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:18 pm to PacMan01
For the life of me, I will never understand how people, with unlimited knowledge at their fingertips, can think that socialism will be better than capitalism. All they have to do is open their iPhones and see. We live in a country where humans enjoy the highest standard of living ever in human history thanks almost completely to technological innovation and hard work driven by profit motive. Profit motive incentivizes investment and growth. Profit motive creates competition and drives higher quality products and services. Profit motive strives to minimize waste and economical delivery of goods and services. Profit motive has improved the lives of every human on the planet in some way.
Without profit motive there is no need to take risks. Without profit motive there is no need to work harder than anyone else. The goal of socialism is to remove profit motive as everyone will have an equal outcome in life. The large majority of innovative breakthroughs in raising the standard of living of humans has happened in capitalist economic systems where profit motive was the driver. Your iPhone was not invented in Venezuela, in other words. It was invented by someone who then bought a gigantic mega yacht. Without the mega yacht carrot, there would never be an iPhone invented at the time it was invented.
Without profit motive there is no need to take risks. Without profit motive there is no need to work harder than anyone else. The goal of socialism is to remove profit motive as everyone will have an equal outcome in life. The large majority of innovative breakthroughs in raising the standard of living of humans has happened in capitalist economic systems where profit motive was the driver. Your iPhone was not invented in Venezuela, in other words. It was invented by someone who then bought a gigantic mega yacht. Without the mega yacht carrot, there would never be an iPhone invented at the time it was invented.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:22 pm to PacMan01
There’s no system of checks and balances in socialism. It may start with good intentions, but eventually people in charge are going to put themselves first. You need to keep people honest by creating a system where service providers have to compete against each other, which drives innovation. The consumer will never win when the only provider for any given service is the government.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:28 pm to PacMan01
quote:
Leftist here. I’m a long-time lurker, but I like to learn more about the perspective on the opposite aisle.
Why would anyone support a system that doesn't lift people out of poverty? Where has socialism taken a poor country and turn them into an economic power? China has grown by loosening its hold and still lagged Hong Kong and Taiwan by decades.
People in the US have built empires starting in their garages. Mike Dell started off in his garage building computers and by 25 he was a billionaire. Hell half of big tech today started off with handful of people in their homes and garages. Ronnie Barret started out in this garage building .50 rifles and is a military manufacturer.
See any socialized nations producing entrepreneurs? Largely a dead area and those countries rely on those heavily subsidized conglomerated for any economic growth.
Socialism doesn't develop the person. The only thing it does is have them be reliant on the government for their "necessities." With the current "equality" of results how does one gain upward mobility without outperforming the next person? Its not possible.
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:29 pm to PacMan01
I'll keep it short and simple...Elites living in luxury while the other side lives in a shite hole.
This post was edited on 1/16/21 at 7:29 pm
Posted on 1/16/21 at 7:30 pm to PacMan01
quote:
Leftist here.
Why? Do you detest freedom and self reliance?
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