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re: Theory on chokehold bans
Posted on 6/13/20 at 5:42 pm to LSUgrad08112
Posted on 6/13/20 at 5:42 pm to LSUgrad08112
Because if someone's trying to take your gun, you grab it, push down, and either turn into the attacker to break his grip, or simply fall on it. Next time you see a cop, notice that they usually have a folding knife clipped to their off hand pocket. One tactic is to lock the gun down with your gun hand, grab the knife with the other, then get all Pokey McStabby until they let go. The second is to carry a back-up pistol that you draw with your off hand. Same as before. Lock it down and turn into him. If that doesn't work, fall on it, draw the back-up, and squeeze rounds into him until he lets go.
1
Posted on 6/13/20 at 5:49 pm to davyjones
quote:
That's interesting. Are chokeholds in general deemed deadly force?
And one other question: What is the general policy regarding an arrestee who claims shortness of breath or some other related medical distress?
Don't really know much about choke holds because we've never trained on them. All I know is the LVNR, which IS deadly force. As was asked before, if someone is going for my gun, I CAN legally use it, but we don't train on it. Also, I'm a former wrestler, so I know how to take the head without causing injury. You just have to take an arm with it.
As for people complaining of shortness of breath, we'd roll medics immediately even if we thought he was faking simply as a CYA move. The handcuffs would stay on, but we'd probably get him up unless he was kicking.
This post was edited on 6/13/20 at 5:50 pm
Posted on 6/13/20 at 5:54 pm to Tantal
Thanks for the response.
Posted on 6/13/20 at 6:03 pm to Tantal
Thanks for the answers. I have always wondered about stuff like this. How often do y’all give “wood shampoos” with the billy club?
Posted on 6/13/20 at 6:08 pm to olemc999
Imagine being a cop today in this hyped up manufactured anti cop BS.....no thanks I’m out!
Posted on 6/13/20 at 7:22 pm to olemc999
quote:
. How often do y’all give “wood shampoos” with the billy club?
Very few agencies still use wooden nightsticks anymore, so the "hickory shampoo" is rare. In fact, I've always carried the expandable ASP baton. I've had to pull and extend it a few times, but the suspect reconsidered his actions and complied before I had to take the strike. My most common use for it has been going to the door of a party where you can already smell the weed when you get out of the car. When you knock, they usually open the door thinking it's more partiers. That's when I surreptitiously slide the baton into the door frame for when they try to slam it in my face.
As for when we DO have to make the baton strike, we aim for large muscle areas, most commonly the outside of the thigh or calf. Head strikes are considered deadly force.
Posted on 6/13/20 at 7:56 pm to Tantal
quote:
Tantal
I don't get why arm and neck chokes (if you're on top of the perp) or rear naked chokes (if you're behind the perp) aren't taught. The perp will pass out in a few seconds and everyone is better off for it.
I know protecting your gun is part of it, but if this is on the ground, it would be almost impossible for them to get at your gun.
This post was edited on 6/13/20 at 7:57 pm
Posted on 6/13/20 at 8:14 pm to LSUgrad08112
Nm
This post was edited on 6/13/20 at 8:30 pm
Posted on 6/13/20 at 8:27 pm to olemc999
How about automatic taser after first non compliance?
Posted on 6/13/20 at 8:28 pm to LSUgrad08112
quote:
Teaching y’all guillotines and RNC’s would be safer
They teach us the arm triangle... it allows you to transition to handcuffing easier without choking them completely out and is easier to protect your gun.
This post was edited on 6/13/20 at 8:29 pm
Posted on 6/13/20 at 8:35 pm to davyjones
quote:
Are chokeholds in general deemed deadly force?
No...its a restraint that can be used against someone who is assaultive.
The problem with chokes is that they can be hard to transition from without the subject being unconscious.
This post was edited on 6/13/20 at 8:36 pm
Posted on 6/13/20 at 8:38 pm to LSUgrad08112
quote:
Why don’t your higher ups feel like it’s necessary to learn chokes?
Cause the word choke sounds bad to administrators and attorneys that worry about lawsuits.
Posted on 6/13/20 at 8:46 pm to theenemy
Not an expert, but in the Atlanta video, the cop in the back looks like he has a perfect chance to sink in a choke and prevent the perp from eventually stealing his partner's taser and running.
I assume he avoided using the choke for a reason. Clearly a chance that if he had used it, the perp would still be alive.
I assume he avoided using the choke for a reason. Clearly a chance that if he had used it, the perp would still be alive.
Posted on 6/13/20 at 8:53 pm to Scott68
quote:
Not an expert, but in the Atlanta video, the cop in the back looks like he has a perfect chance to sink in a choke and prevent the perp from eventually stealing his partner's taser and running.
I assume he avoided using the choke for a reason. Clearly a chance that if he had used it, the perp would still be alive.
Well....because of public perception many departments focus more on techniques that don't work that great in a real fight but create less liability....so there it is.
Posted on 6/13/20 at 8:57 pm to Scott68
quote:
Not an expert, but in the Atlanta video, the cop in the back looks like he has a perfect chance to sink in a choke and prevent the perp from eventually stealing his partner's taser and running.
I assume he avoided using the choke for a reason. Clearly a chance that if he had used it, the perp would still be alive.
Posted on 6/13/20 at 10:42 pm to Tantal
That’s really interesting, thanks for the detailed answer 
Posted on 6/13/20 at 11:48 pm to LSUgrad08112
When I was on Navy Shore Patrol in Spain all we had was the hickory stick.Spanish government wouldn’t allow us to carry guns off base which was probably a good thing.We weren’t professionally trained in law enforcement,it was an OJT temporary duty position,I did it for 22 months.
Anyway we weren’t allowed to hit the head.My favorite technique was aim for the shin,one good whack and they were out of the fight.
Anyway we weren’t allowed to hit the head.My favorite technique was aim for the shin,one good whack and they were out of the fight.
Posted on 6/14/20 at 12:05 am to stuntman
quote:
I don't get why arm and neck chokes (if you're on top of the perp) or rear naked chokes (if you're behind the perp) aren't taught. The perp will pass out in a few seconds and everyone is better off for it.
My guess, and this is only a guess, is that it's a safety and liability issue. Pro fighters don't get the same adrenaline dump because they're professionals that know they're going into a fight. Plus, they have a referee that's looking at the fighter being choked out and can tell when he's done and pull the winning fighter off. I could easily see a situation where, with the adrenaline dump, the officer locked down on the neck and didn't let go until it was too late.
This post was edited on 6/14/20 at 2:10 am
Posted on 6/14/20 at 2:55 am to TrueTiger
quote:
In the Eric Garner case, the officer had let go with the choke hold, it was the knee in the back that really did him in,
The same with the Tony Timpa case in Dallas, knee in the back while pinning him down, dead.
Probably the same in the Floyd case, more likely the weight of the 2nd cop in Floyd's back, not Chauvin's knee.
I really don't understand why some officers want to put weight on a suspect's back, restricting their breathing, when they can just as easily be controlled from the shoulder or head. When I've been in those situations, as long as they're not kicking, I want to get them up to open their diaphragm and get them breathing properly. While lawful, measured violence is sometimes necessary, I certainly take no pleasure in it. In fact, once my handcuffs are on a person, I am responsible for their safety.
Posted on 6/14/20 at 10:11 am to Tantal
It takes about 5 minutes to kill someone with a tight choke FWIW. There’s a lot of misinformation out there on how lethal chokes are. That’s why there’s never been a documented case of someone being accidentally choked to death doing BJJ, Judo, or MMA. You’d have to be trying extremely hard to kil them and no one intervene for an extended period of time which isn’t realistic
Coming from someone that’s been accidentally choked unconscious, it’s 1000000x more humane to be choked out and see TV static for a few seconds then wake up confused than it is to have your AC joint separated/rotator cuff shredded/humerus and forearm broken/etc by an Americana or Kimura.
Kinda sucks that police higher ups aren’t taking the time to research these things before they make life altering decisions for their subordinates.
Coming from someone that’s been accidentally choked unconscious, it’s 1000000x more humane to be choked out and see TV static for a few seconds then wake up confused than it is to have your AC joint separated/rotator cuff shredded/humerus and forearm broken/etc by an Americana or Kimura.
Kinda sucks that police higher ups aren’t taking the time to research these things before they make life altering decisions for their subordinates.
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