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Started By
Message
PPP - some folks confusing eligible expenses with payroll
Posted on 4/7/20 at 8:35 pm
Posted on 4/7/20 at 8:35 pm
Have seen lots of folks do this. None of them for nefarious purposes IMO.
Some are trying to add mortgage payment expense, rent, utilities, etc. into the figure that is averaged over 12 months, then is multiplied by 2.5
In order to come up with your “loan” amount, your payroll is the determining factor.
Payroll costs include:
Salary, wages, commissions, or tips (capped at $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee);
Employee benefits including costs for vacation, parental, family, medical, or sick leave; allowance for separation or dismissal; payments required for the provisions of group health care benefits including insurance premiums; and payment of any retirement benefit;
State and local taxes assessed on compensation; and
For a sole proprietor or independent contractor: wages, commissions, income, or net
earnings from self-employment, capped at $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee.
Expenses that are allowed for loan proceeds to be spent on and it be “forgiven” include:
Payroll costs, including benefits;
Interest on mortgage obligations, incurred before February 15, 2020;
Rent, under lease agreements in force before February 15, 2020; and
Utilities, for which service began before February 15, 2020.
Source: Treasury.gov
Some are trying to add mortgage payment expense, rent, utilities, etc. into the figure that is averaged over 12 months, then is multiplied by 2.5
In order to come up with your “loan” amount, your payroll is the determining factor.
Payroll costs include:
Salary, wages, commissions, or tips (capped at $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee);
Employee benefits including costs for vacation, parental, family, medical, or sick leave; allowance for separation or dismissal; payments required for the provisions of group health care benefits including insurance premiums; and payment of any retirement benefit;
State and local taxes assessed on compensation; and
For a sole proprietor or independent contractor: wages, commissions, income, or net
earnings from self-employment, capped at $100,000 on an annualized basis for each employee.
Expenses that are allowed for loan proceeds to be spent on and it be “forgiven” include:
Payroll costs, including benefits;
Interest on mortgage obligations, incurred before February 15, 2020;
Rent, under lease agreements in force before February 15, 2020; and
Utilities, for which service began before February 15, 2020.
Source: Treasury.gov
Posted on 4/7/20 at 8:38 pm to Kreg Jennings
quote:
Some are trying to add mortgage payment expense, rent, utilities, etc. into the figure that is averaged over 12 months, then is multiplied by 2.5
I haven’t seen anyone do that
The plan is pretty clear that it’s just payroll.
Posted on 4/7/20 at 8:43 pm to tgrbaitn08
quote:
I haven’t seen anyone do that
I take it you aren’t in finance
Posted on 4/7/20 at 8:47 pm to Kreg Jennings
I pay people for that
Link us where people are doing what you’re claiming.
Link us where people are doing what you’re claiming.
This post was edited on 4/7/20 at 8:49 pm
Posted on 4/8/20 at 7:47 am to Kreg Jennings
Where can I find a simple outline or chart (dumbed down for the average redneck) showing the overall process once the loan application is submitted to my local bank.
I'm assuming that it's close to the following:
1. I submit the loan application to my bank, along with all the supporting documentation the bank requests.
2. The bank reviews and approves (??) the loan application.
3. The bank submits some sort of document to the SBA indicating my loan has been reviewed and approved.
4. The SBA provides some sort of approval document/file number/loan number (???) to the bank.
5. The bank then disburses funds to me out of it's reserves/loan fund (after I sign 50-100 loan documents).
Is this anywhere close to the process ??
I'm assuming that it's close to the following:
1. I submit the loan application to my bank, along with all the supporting documentation the bank requests.
2. The bank reviews and approves (??) the loan application.
3. The bank submits some sort of document to the SBA indicating my loan has been reviewed and approved.
4. The SBA provides some sort of approval document/file number/loan number (???) to the bank.
5. The bank then disburses funds to me out of it's reserves/loan fund (after I sign 50-100 loan documents).
Is this anywhere close to the process ??
Posted on 4/8/20 at 7:53 am to Kreg Jennings
i kept mine simple...
i added up gross salaries, paid medical and annual retirement for one year, divided by 12 and multiplied by 2.5. that's my loan amount
i will use the money to pay regular payroll for 8 weeks, two months of paid medical, and two months of retirement contributions. that amount will leave 0.5% of my loan amount unspent, which i will satisfy with my regular rent payment.
unless something changes i expect that my entire loan amount will be eligible for forgiveness.
i added up gross salaries, paid medical and annual retirement for one year, divided by 12 and multiplied by 2.5. that's my loan amount
i will use the money to pay regular payroll for 8 weeks, two months of paid medical, and two months of retirement contributions. that amount will leave 0.5% of my loan amount unspent, which i will satisfy with my regular rent payment.
unless something changes i expect that my entire loan amount will be eligible for forgiveness.
Posted on 4/8/20 at 8:04 am to tgrbaitn08
Lots of my small business owner clients are confusing the two. They are getting overwhelmed with the stress and pressure to get the app filed asap that they are mixing up programs and aspects of different programs.
Posted on 4/8/20 at 8:32 am to Kreg Jennings
To be eligible for forgiveness, a minimum 75% of funds received from a PPP loan must be spent on payroll. If not, it rolls to a 0.5%, 2 year loan.
Posted on 4/8/20 at 8:40 am to tigernnola
quote:
To be eligible for forgiveness, a minimum 75% of funds received from a PPP loan must be spent on payroll. If not, it rolls to a 0.5%, 2 year loan.
So hearing this I get concerned. The calculation says I should include retirement benefits.... which I max our solo 401k. But I already paid that in Q1. That will prohibit me getting to the 75% if I include it.... should I just leave it out?
Posted on 4/8/20 at 8:42 am to igoringa
quote:
But I already paid that in Q1
for 2019 or 2020?
if 2019, you can now contribute the prorated 2020 portion based on 8 weeks salary
Posted on 4/8/20 at 8:44 am to Kreg Jennings
IMHO, they screwed it up by not having the same "base" for calculating eligibility costs and what it must be spent on for forgivness.
If it's the "Paycheck Protection Program" they should have said, ok, here is 2.5x monthly payroll costs, you need to spend 100 percent of it on monthly payroll costs over say 3 months.
Spending on the other stuff like rent and utilities, if they wanted this to be eligible, then they should have included these costs on the front end. Or, just push all that to the EIDL.
If it's the "Paycheck Protection Program" they should have said, ok, here is 2.5x monthly payroll costs, you need to spend 100 percent of it on monthly payroll costs over say 3 months.
Spending on the other stuff like rent and utilities, if they wanted this to be eligible, then they should have included these costs on the front end. Or, just push all that to the EIDL.
Posted on 4/8/20 at 9:01 am to cgrand
quote:
For 2019 or 2020? if 2019, you can now contribute the prorated 2020 portion based on 8 weeks salary
Unfortunately had already maxed 2019 in 2019 and thus 2020 contributions were for 2020 and, yes first world problem, but I maxed out for year in Q1..... never thought something like this would kick up
Posted on 4/8/20 at 9:17 am to cgrand
quote:
i kept mine simple...
i added up gross salaries, paid medical and annual retirement for one year, divided by 12 and multiplied by 2.5. that's my loan amount
That’s exactly how we did ours
Posted on 4/8/20 at 9:18 am to tigernnola
quote:
If not, it rolls to a 0.5%, 2 year loan.
I’m fine with that
Posted on 4/8/20 at 11:09 am to cgrand
quote:
kept mine simple...
You forgot to include the pelisuite.
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