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How do you balance free market capitalism with what Saudi Arabia and China are doing?
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:35 pm
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:35 pm
I’m all about free trade but we’re seeing that other countries have found ways to use this to undermine our own security interests. SA is flooding the market with cheap oil which will bankrupt our shale producers...the vehicle which made us energy independent. Without them we’re once again beholden to foreign producers.
China used free trade to undermine our manufacturing base and put us in a position where we depend on them for everything. They’ve also funneled this money into building their military and becoming a threat...all while beating down their own people. And they use their money to buy off anyone that can stop them.
We need to restructure our trade deals and dependence on these countries even if it means interfering with free trade. I don’t know how we do this without restrictions on imports of vital goods...which can only be down with price caps or tariffs...which I deplore. I also think we should only have free trade with allies or countries with free markets and flow of capital...not state owned resources.
Tough problem...but if we’re going to be spending trillions I’d rather see it rebuilding our internal manufacturing base in lieu of helicopter money or bailing out banks. Tell these countries to frick themselves and get our house in order. If we cut off our consumer dollars they’ll be crippled.
What am I missing?
China used free trade to undermine our manufacturing base and put us in a position where we depend on them for everything. They’ve also funneled this money into building their military and becoming a threat...all while beating down their own people. And they use their money to buy off anyone that can stop them.
We need to restructure our trade deals and dependence on these countries even if it means interfering with free trade. I don’t know how we do this without restrictions on imports of vital goods...which can only be down with price caps or tariffs...which I deplore. I also think we should only have free trade with allies or countries with free markets and flow of capital...not state owned resources.
Tough problem...but if we’re going to be spending trillions I’d rather see it rebuilding our internal manufacturing base in lieu of helicopter money or bailing out banks. Tell these countries to frick themselves and get our house in order. If we cut off our consumer dollars they’ll be crippled.
What am I missing?
11
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:39 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
How do you balance free market capitalism
In its purest sense, you don’t. It is what it is. Those companies that can drive down costs and reduce competition do so.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:42 pm to SquatchDawg
Besides for gutting the American heartland and trading 60k factory jobs for 20k service jobs, our critical supply chains should not be dependent on China. The truth is they never would have been if it wasn’t for our economic and political elite (along with people like IB) betraying us to line their pocketbooks. In a just world, they would be punished. I hope trump onshores our manufacturing and we ritually humiliate China forever.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:43 pm to SquatchDawg
Many confuse Free Trade with Capitalism, so much so that they believe you can't have one without the other. There's no "Free Trade" with Russia, Saudi Arabia, and China, and really, the rest of the World. The Principles of "fairness" in Capitalism is out the window beyond our borders. We have to bring the enemy to their "trade" knees to protect our own economy.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:46 pm to SquatchDawg
You are missing the 1963 DEMOCRAT entry into the congressional record that warned the USA citizen that the communists nations want the USA to remove restraints and trade with communist nations as but 1 venue to bring down our nation.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:46 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
SA is flooding the market with cheap oil which will bankrupt our shale producers...the vehicle which made us energy independent. Without them we’re once again beholden to foreign producers.
Has the resource disappeared? Just because a bunch poorly run shitcos, that were going to Bk anyway just sooner now, go away doesn’t mean the resource can’t be exploited when it’s economic. And it was only economic because OPEC and Russia were cutting their production while shale shitcos continued to drill themselves into subeconomic prices while piling on debt.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:49 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
China used free trade to undermine our manufacturing base and put us in a position where we depend on them for everything. They’ve also funneled this money into building their military and becoming a threat...all while beating down their own people. And they use their money to buy off anyone that can stop them.
China hasn’t done a damn thing that the DC Corporatocracy didn’t allow them to do. Go listen to Josh Hawley on Tucker Carlson tonight. Hawley admits that many average Americans knew offshoring US industrial/manufacturing to China was a colossal mistake when it was being done but it was done anyway.....care to guess why?
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:50 pm to SquatchDawg
You don't. This is the nasty side to transition to a service based economy.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 9:51 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
I’m all about free trade but we’re seeing that other countries have found ways to use this to undermine our own security interests.
The world can't be explained in an Econ 101 class like IB Chinaman wishes. Glad you're realizing it.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 10:24 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
How do you balance free market capitalism with what Saudi Arabia and China are doing
You fricking nuke em.
Kinda kills their ability to produce.
You come in and close the gap they left.
World problem solved. Who wants another beer?
Posted on 4/1/20 at 10:47 pm to SquatchDawg
quote:
What am I missing?
The fact that you think this country would somehow survive cutting off trade with China.
Posted on 4/1/20 at 10:48 pm to SquatchDawg
You are missing everything.
First off trade with China has not cost us jobs. At the end of December we had more people working than ever before and making the highest wages ever. That is simply fact.
We have a large growth in service jobs AND very large growth in service job wages due in no small part to the fact that most high tech jobs are service jobs.
You are simply wrong when you say we depend on them for everything.
On oil—no one economy is being harmed more by cheap oil than is Saudi Arabia. They are doing a foolish thing and they will not do it long. Demand is off big time and inventories are huge. National oil companies working to influence oil prices is nothing new and is just a part of the industry. (It is really strange to hear Americans complain about cheap gasoline.) Capitalism will fix this.
I do not want Trump or Obama attempting to manipulate supply and demand or American freedom to own and operate businesses.
If you want to whine then whine about the massive government bureaucracy that burdens our nation’s companies with every changing policy with no less than three layers of government.
Some things to point out—capitalism is the reason for the economic miracle in China. Over 70% of their GDP now comes from private companies. Old style communism will never return to China. Today’s communist in China is not a communist Mao would recognize. Power has moved and will continue to move from the State to the private economy. When 1.5 billion people become capitalists we should expect their economy to exceed ours.
First off trade with China has not cost us jobs. At the end of December we had more people working than ever before and making the highest wages ever. That is simply fact.
We have a large growth in service jobs AND very large growth in service job wages due in no small part to the fact that most high tech jobs are service jobs.
You are simply wrong when you say we depend on them for everything.
On oil—no one economy is being harmed more by cheap oil than is Saudi Arabia. They are doing a foolish thing and they will not do it long. Demand is off big time and inventories are huge. National oil companies working to influence oil prices is nothing new and is just a part of the industry. (It is really strange to hear Americans complain about cheap gasoline.) Capitalism will fix this.
I do not want Trump or Obama attempting to manipulate supply and demand or American freedom to own and operate businesses.
If you want to whine then whine about the massive government bureaucracy that burdens our nation’s companies with every changing policy with no less than three layers of government.
Some things to point out—capitalism is the reason for the economic miracle in China. Over 70% of their GDP now comes from private companies. Old style communism will never return to China. Today’s communist in China is not a communist Mao would recognize. Power has moved and will continue to move from the State to the private economy. When 1.5 billion people become capitalists we should expect their economy to exceed ours.
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