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Started By
Message
re: S&WB: Several pumps went offline due to electric issues during July 10 storm
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:32 am to jordan21210
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:32 am to jordan21210
quote:
I was defending them in that people were questioning the lightning strikes on the broad st pump station...I live not far from that specific pump and lost power due to lightning strikes.
Did you backup generator kick on? Neither did theirs.
0
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:36 am to arseinclarse
quote:
love how the mayor and the head of swb used the terms that they were “fully manned.”
Congrats on having employees show up to work!
They, similar to the power issues, keep saying fully manned and then later omitting required staffing reports or admitting to deficits. It’s been obnoxiously consistent that they don’t release the mandated staffing information after these events.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:45 am to OvertheDwayneBowe
It’s not that they don’t know the problems or have the solutions laid out at this point. It is that no one has the will to push them through and figure out the costs involved.
There is at least one study from 2012 which pushed hard to move away from the old 25hz turbines and the pumps they power to using modern 60hz power which is a lot easier to generate and won’t end up with turbines down for long periods of time due to maintenance issues.
All this shite won’t get fixed at once but it would kind of help if the SWB would actually start implementing a solution instead of sleeping on the job or sitting around playing butt darts while the city floods.
And as far as pumping capacity during the changeover goes, a number of these pumps are currently nonfunctional due to a lack of power (something like 2 of 5 turbines out of commission), so it isn’t like decommissioning some of these pumps to replace them with modern equipment will hurt pumping. Because there is no power to pump there now anyway.
Take the old pumps out from the stations where the turbines don’t work and use them for parts on the pumps which are actually getting power as of now.
There is at least one study from 2012 which pushed hard to move away from the old 25hz turbines and the pumps they power to using modern 60hz power which is a lot easier to generate and won’t end up with turbines down for long periods of time due to maintenance issues.
All this shite won’t get fixed at once but it would kind of help if the SWB would actually start implementing a solution instead of sleeping on the job or sitting around playing butt darts while the city floods.
And as far as pumping capacity during the changeover goes, a number of these pumps are currently nonfunctional due to a lack of power (something like 2 of 5 turbines out of commission), so it isn’t like decommissioning some of these pumps to replace them with modern equipment will hurt pumping. Because there is no power to pump there now anyway.
Take the old pumps out from the stations where the turbines don’t work and use them for parts on the pumps which are actually getting power as of now.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:45 am to icegator337
Can't disagree that the rain was more than the city could process (more than most cities could process) to avoid SOME flooding...I believe the new buzzword du jour is "Flash Flooding". However, there was widespread flooding in areas where drainage and pumps were mismanaged.
Like the previous administration, those running New Orleans City government are more worried about controlling the narrative, telling us that the system is functioning properly and no city could process that amount of rain fall. This is similar to the comments by the previous director concerning "climate change", only to find out many pumps were down.
The perfect example to show how inept current government leadership is Mayor Cantrell announcing on Thursday 7/11 that there would be no trash collection in the city on 7/12 and services had been suspended, only to find out Richards was not suspended on 7/12 and picked up trash on all regular routes. I had a neighbor call city sanitation and was told there would be no trash service and another called Richards to confirm the opposite. We had a major flood "event" on 7/10 and a storm bearing down on us, but you want to suspend trash pickup???
Like the previous administration, those running New Orleans City government are more worried about controlling the narrative, telling us that the system is functioning properly and no city could process that amount of rain fall. This is similar to the comments by the previous director concerning "climate change", only to find out many pumps were down.
The perfect example to show how inept current government leadership is Mayor Cantrell announcing on Thursday 7/11 that there would be no trash collection in the city on 7/12 and services had been suspended, only to find out Richards was not suspended on 7/12 and picked up trash on all regular routes. I had a neighbor call city sanitation and was told there would be no trash service and another called Richards to confirm the opposite. We had a major flood "event" on 7/10 and a storm bearing down on us, but you want to suspend trash pickup???
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:47 am to icegator337
I never said that this past weeks rain was normal. But remember last summer when actual normal rains resulted in flooded businesses, homes, and vehicles?
Posted on 7/17/19 at 10:56 am to teke184
quote:
so it isn’t like decommissioning some of these pumps to replace them with modern equipment will hurt pumping. Because there is no power to pump there now anyway.
Take the old pumps out from the stations where the turbines don’t work and use them for parts on the pumps which are actually getting power as of now.
They continually say they have the ability to run every single pump at the same time, but they can't because of canal restraints.
So they might have 5 pumps at a station but can only run 4 at the same time, so that 5th one is a backup.
I'm sure they have decades of recommendations to remove the old power source. It's like they painted themselves in a corner 75 years ago and spent the last 50 painting the area immediately around them.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:00 am to teke184
quote:
And as far as pumping capacity during the changeover goes, a number of these pumps are currently nonfunctional due to a lack of power (something like 2 of 5 turbines out of commission), so it isn’t like decommissioning some of these pumps to replace them with modern equipment will hurt pumping. Because there is no power to pump there now anyway.
You need to update your info knowledge. Every pump in the city now has working primary power (either through in-house turbines or Entergy) and backup power. But like we have said, the backup power isn't an automatic switch-on. It has to be manually turned on, and the pumps have to be manually restarted.
Yes, this is an inferior system, and we need to work towards solutions to replace this system.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:02 am to OvertheDwayneBowe
I’d believe them if they didn’t have a habit of talking out of both sides of their mouth and getting caught. Constantly.
The 2017 floods where they claimed that all pumps were running at capacity only to have a fire at station 2 shortly thereafter where it was claimed some pumps hadn’t been used in years comes to mind.
The 2017 floods where they claimed that all pumps were running at capacity only to have a fire at station 2 shortly thereafter where it was claimed some pumps hadn’t been used in years comes to mind.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:02 am to ProjectP2294
quote:
If you remove fraud, graft, and general mis-spending over the last 100 years of New Orleans, they would be able to afford the new pumps several times over.
Let's not pretend they're efficient at spending the money they already get.
I know it's fun to say this, and it's pretty true.
But that doesn't help us solve the problem today, does it?
We aren't going to be able to go back over the last 100 years and recapture the vast majority of that money. So... what do we do going forward?
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:03 am to LSUFanHouston
Bulldoze the Lower 9th and turn it back into grasslands to be flooded in times of emergency?
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:05 am to NOLA Tiger
quote:
The perfect example to show how inept current government leadership is Mayor Cantrell announcing on Thursday 7/11 that there would be no trash collection in the city on 7/12 and services had been suspended, only to find out Richards was not suspended on 7/12 and picked up trash on all regular routes. I had a neighbor call city sanitation and was told there would be no trash service and another called Richards to confirm the opposite. We had a major flood "event" on 7/10 and a storm bearing down on us, but you want to suspend trash pickup???
Piss poor communication, both internal and external. But City Hall was shut down Friday, or was supposed to be, on the idea that the weather was supposed to deteriorate throughout the day. I can understand not wanting sanitation trucks on the street in driving rain and 40mph winds. In a normal environment, the original decision to suspend collection on Friday made sense.
However, we were not in a normal environment, because we had a flood on Wed, and lots of trash and debris on the streets, and you definetly wanted that picked up ASAP.
So when they considered that, as well as the altered forecasts, it made sense for Richards to collect on Friday. But the city did a piss poor job communicating that.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:06 am to Oilfieldbiology
quote:
But remember last summer when actual normal rains resulted in flooded businesses, homes, and vehicles?
Those weren't normal afternoon thunderstorms, they weren't as bad as Wednesday but they weren't normal.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:06 am to OvertheDwayneBowe
quote:
I'm sure they have decades of recommendations to remove the old power source. It's like they painted themselves in a corner 75 years ago and spent the last 50 painting the area immediately around them.
Yup. Decades upon decades of incompetence, mismanagement, and refusing to face reality got us here.
But again... I'm more concerned about, where do we go from here?
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:07 am to Dizz
It was 2 inches in an afternoon. That’s pretty damn normal for as long as I’ve been alive
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:07 am to teke184
quote:
The 2017 floods where they claimed that all pumps were running at capacity only to have a fire at station 2 shortly thereafter where it was claimed some pumps hadn’t been used in years comes to mind.
Sure.
But all the top brass that was there in 2017, is no longer there today. Heads rolled after that, as they should have.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:11 am to teke184
quote:
Bulldoze the Lower 9th and turn it back into grasslands to be flooded in times of emergency?
Certainly, finding ways to retain water, and being able to delay it's movement into the drainage system, would help. So yes, that means detention ponds and reservoirs.
The problem is geographically, the city is "cut" into four spaces - Algiers, NOLA East, Lower 9, and everything else. I don't know if, because of the industrial canal / intercoastal waterway, if building floodplains/detention ponds in the 9th ward, would help alleviate flooding in uptown.
You would probably need to find/develop such ponds in each of those 4 areas. Plenty of places to do that in the East/9th Ward and really Algiers. However, finding places to do that West of the Industrial Canal is going to be a major challenge. You are talking about buyouts.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:12 am to Oilfieldbiology
When did 2inches flood the city last summer? I googled and all I found was a 4in storm in May of 2018 that had street flooding.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:25 am to LSUFanHouston
quote:
You would probably need to find/develop such ponds in each of those 4 areas. Plenty of places to do that in the East/9th Ward and really Algiers. However, finding places to do that West of the Industrial Canal is going to be a major challenge. You are talking about buyouts
I know even the SWB pushes the whole retention thing, but I don't buy it.
A 10-foot deep football field is a million gallons and could get pumped out by one of their pumps in two minutes.
How big of a dedicated space would they need to really be effective, and even then, how do you get the water to it?
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:36 am to OvertheDwayneBowe
I am pretty sure there have been discussions with city park to pump water to parts of the park like JP does with Pontiff.
Posted on 7/17/19 at 11:37 am to OvertheDwayneBowe
quote:
I know even the SWB pushes the whole retention thing, but I don't buy it.
A 10-foot deep football field is a million gallons and could get pumped out by one of their pumps in two minutes.
The idea is based on the thought that it's not really pump capacity that is the issue, but more, the capacity to get water to the pump stations themselves. You hold the water before introducing it to the system.
As a side benefit, that might inject more water to flow naturally into the ground, which will help with the sinkage issue.
quote:
How big of a dedicated space would they need to really be effective, and even then, how do you get the water to it?
You would need some pretty big spots. Ideally, I would think they would be connected directly to the canals - if you think of a canal as a straight channel, then at various spots, you could have it open up on one or both sides and flow into a retention pond. You would grade the ponds and entrances into the ponds so that they only fill up once the canals get above a certain level. And as the canal level drops, the water would just flow back in.
Where that's not possible, you can do it with pipes bringing water to the ponds either from a canal, or you could reroute some areas to drain directly to a pond and then to a canal.
None of this is cheap or easy.
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