re: Would appreciate the board's recommendations on a backup CC handgun

Doesn't need a safety. Its DA

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Doesn't need a safety. Its DA

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Correct. I was just responding to one of the OP's specifications. I really like mine.

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I've known many folks who started out w/ ankle carry only to find out they didn't like it once they started using it.

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Yeah, I get it. Different strokes for different folks. I definitely agree on the full size gun. I started with a full size 1911. That lasted about 2 days.

P238 for $409

P938 for $469

If you don’t like the grips you can find another set for ~$40

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I've known many folks who started out w/ ankle carry only to find out they didn't like it once they started using it.

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Ankle holsters are fine for carry while driving/ seated. They are really slow/awkward to access if someone is walking/running/motorcycling.

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P238 for $409

P938 for $469

If you don’t like the grips you can find another set for ~$40

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Good prices, indeed. Although entry level for the models. Look a little harder and you can find models with night/white dot sights and an extra mag.

1. Plexico didn't have a holster. And he was tool.

2. How many people do you know (or know of) who shot themselves while re-holstering. (I can think of one semi-highly publicized instance a few years ago. Happened to a guy with a flimsy leather POS holster who was getting into (or out of) his vehicle. And IIRC he shot the car, not himself).

3. Deactivating a safety on a shotgun instinctively means you've done that a lot of times. A huge % of handgun owners fire one or two mags thru their pistol (if that many) and never shoot it again. The "muscle memory" (neural pathways) just aren't there.

Well over half the students who come in to renew their permits tell me some variation of "I'm a little nervous - I haven't shot a gun since I took my class five years ago." I recently had one guy call to schedule a class who told me his "nightstand" pistol was a "40" (he didn't know the make or model) that he had never shot - it was a gift from his office staff - he loaded it and put it in the nightstand "in case he ever needed it."

4. Go watch an IDPA match where some first-time competitors are shooting. Or come watch an average CCW class as they shoot. I've seen a lot of both -- and seen over a hundred (maybe 200 -- wasn't counting) who got nervous and forgot to disengage the safety. While I'm sure it hasn't happened to you, it's happened to a lot more people than you'd think.

I also see shooters who are quite competent who have pistols with external safeties. Proficiency is largely dependent on repetitions and time interval between shooting sessions. (I don't think DA/SA/striker-fired has much of anything to do with negligent discharges - following the four little rules has everything to do with it.)

5. I'm not saying all these nimrods represent the majority of gun owners. But they surely aren't a small minority.

6. I see plenty of folks who won't consider carrying a handgun that doesn't have an external safety. That's a personal choice - doesn't hurt me. But if/when you talk to them it usually turns out that (a) most of their experience is with long guns (which are obviously not carried in holsters) or (b) they have little experience at all with firearms and are just nervous about carrying. A lot of these folks carry their handgun w/o a round in the chamber - especially if it's a 1911.

I'm just saying that your level of experience and competency exceeds that of the average handgun owner.
You'll instinctively disengage the safety, whereas a fairly large % of gun owners may/will likely fail to do so. (The good news is that the odds of needing a handgun on any given day are relatively low.)

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If somebody isnt proficient enough to trust themselves to click a safety before shooting, should they trust themselves more WITHOUT one?

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Well, the "glib" answer is that they should get some training before carrying one.

I understand your point about a 10 lb. trigger being a form of a safety. But if you look at NYC cops and their 12 lb. safeties, (and their infrequent training) they have one of the worst shooting/safety records in the US.

It's a lot like my saying the holster is a form of a safety. It doesn't guarantee that someone won't do something stupid and/or dangerous. I can say I have a few hundred thousand rounds through my G19, but that doesn't mean it's the right gun for everyone. (And maybe I've just been lucky).

Unfortunately, there are relatively few (small percentage) gun owners who are truly competent. Most of us think we are (and it certainly sounds as if you're one of the competent ones), but a lot of folks (as Claude Werner says) just don't know what they don't know.

To me, the real safety on a firearm comes from following the four rules of gun handling - for handguns or long guns. But I will say that from a purely defensive perspective, (assuming the shooter is well trained and practices frequently), it's hard to justify an external safety.

Training and competency aren't prerequisites for gun ownership in this country. And they shouldn't be. But I wish a lot more gun owners were a lot more competent. At that point, all of this would be nothing more than an academic/theoretical discussion.

It's obvious that you've given this a lot more real thought than most people have. I learn a lot from your posts. And I hope we probably agree on most of this.

I don't view it as a war. What makes you think it is ?

I view it as a polite discussion.

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And you can plexico burass yourself pretty easily on reholster without a safety.

My carry gun is DA/SA so it doesnt have a safety but I wouldnt carry a striker fired gun without one. I get where OP is coming from.

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Thank you, Downshift. My original answer was somewhat of a smart a$$ answer and I do regret and apologize for that. And to another poster who asked if I had considered a revolver, my primary carry is a wheel gun and has been my primary carry for 30+ years. I am very familiar and comfortable with it. I just want a backup CC...just in case. I do appreciate this board's recommendations and advice.