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You trial lawyers.... what's the most likely date before a trial when a plea deal...

Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:33 am
Posted by clamdip
Rocky Mountain High
Member since Sep 2004
21039 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:33 am
...is pushed by both parties?

Example: let's say the trial date is April 22nd.

Is it a last minute thing usually?
This post was edited on 4/1/19 at 9:34 am
Posted by macatak911
Mandeville, LA
Member since Sep 2007
11111 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:43 am to
When the jury is in the hallway.
Posted by Dlab2013
Pineville, Luzianna
Member since Jun 2013
9352 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:45 am to
No trial lawyer here, but I’ve been in the Jury pool 2 times now when a plea deal was struck on the day of jury selection.

Is this a jury trial? If so I guess we’d have to find out when the jury selection day is, seems like the deadline?

Just throwing that out there from experience......
Posted by JustSmokin
Member since Sep 2007
9162 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:45 am to
quote:

Is it a last minute thing usually?

Not always. Three assistant coaches made a deal back in January and Person made his deal a few weeks ago. Their trial was set for June.

It can happen at any time.
Posted by Joshjrn
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2008
31878 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:48 am to
quote:

...is pushed by both parties?

Example: let's say the trial date is April 22nd.

Is it a last minute thing usually?


Which parish are you in, and is it a felony or misdemeanor?

ETA: I just realized which board I'm on. What is this about?
This post was edited on 4/1/19 at 9:51 am
Posted by Joshjrn
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2008
31878 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 9:49 am to
quote:

Is this a jury trial? If so I guess we’d have to find out when the jury selection day is, seems like the deadline?


Jury selection is the first stage of trial. It starts on the date the trial is set, possibly the day after if the court otherwise had a lengthy docket.

And the only deadline is the jury coming back into court and announcing their verdict. An agreement can be reached at any point before then.
Posted by rthomas628k
natchitoches, louisiana
Member since Jan 2013
161 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 10:02 am to
A very small club, attorney’s involved in litigation of this type. My very limited experience of anything remotely close to this type of stuff would suggest it will be an 11th hour deal. Too many moving parts and all parties are under tremendous pressure to save face. The prosecution may not even like their chances but still feel compelled to take it the distance.
I wouldn’t expect a deal before the trial date, unless the judge pressures one or both sides! Federal judges like to get shite resolved. (I’m assuming this is Federal District stuff vs. State level)
Posted by Alt26
Member since Mar 2010
34472 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 10:18 am to
A plea agreement could come at any time (even in the middle of trial). That said, I suspect the prosecutors have long offered Dawkins a plea deal. It's much more expeditious to have defendants plead than have to engage in a trial.

Like anything else, the closer you get to a deadline (i.e. trial date) the more pressure there is on deciding whether to plead or roll the dice at trial. And let no one fool you, no matter how strong either side thinks their case is, a jury trial is always a gamble for both sides. However, there also comes a point where the DOJ make take the plea deal off the table. You try to get an early plea so the prosecutor doesn't have to expend time and efforts preparing for trial. One he's done that, however, he may just decide to tee it up and let the jury decide as all the trial prep has been done.

In short, the most likely date for a plea deal is the deadline when the offer will be off the table. None of us know when that is.
Posted by SCP
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2016
1337 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 12:29 pm to
Another question for the attorneys. Will Wade be deposed before the trial by either side? Also, when is this likely to happen? Is it possible he was already deposed before the most recent transcript leaks? What is the possibility any of the information gets out with or without a settlement ?
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
71515 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 12:35 pm to
quote:

Another question for the attorneys. Will Wade be deposed before the trial by either side? Also, when is this likely to happen? Is it possible he was already deposed before the most recent transcript leaks? What is the possibility any of the information gets out with or without a settlement ?


depositions aren't very common in criminal proceedings. Deposition testimony is still hearsay. In a civil context, it's mainly used as another discovery method, which isn't typically the purpose of a deposition in a criminal case. I believe depositions in criminal cases aren't even permitted in every jurisdiction, not sure on the federal rules for criminal depos.

But I haven't done criminal work in a long time and never at the federal level.
This post was edited on 4/1/19 at 12:38 pm
Posted by SCP
Baton Rouge
Member since Mar 2016
1337 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 12:45 pm to
Thanks.
Posted by Romney Wordsworth
The Obsolete Fan
Member since Apr 2018
180 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 1:37 pm to
I’ve handled about a dozen criminal matters in my career and in every single one have reached a plea agreement the morning of the trial. This will of course vary wildly between jurisdictions.
Posted by ellessuuuu
Member since Sep 2004
9174 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 2:12 pm to
Dude, depositions are not hearsay, they are sworn testimony just like it was given in the courtroom.

Now, parts of a deposition may be hearsay, I.e. Jim Doe testifies that John Doe said he saw money changing hands. But a deposition in and of itself is not an out of court statement, which is the first element of hearsay.

You are correct in that depositions are not common in criminal settings, especially since US District Courts have nationwide subpoena power in criminal cases.
This post was edited on 4/1/19 at 2:15 pm
Posted by Hog cracklin
Member since Aug 2018
321 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 2:23 pm to
I understand where you are going with this but unfortunately Joe Alleva has already admitted guilt and has given the ncaa investigators a free room at Lod Cook (they don’t even need to sleep in the van like at Ole Miss), all based off one snippet of an article, and our board of supervisors are perfectly ok with it
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
71515 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 2:28 pm to
quote:

Dude, depositions are not hearsay, they are sworn testimony just like it was given in the courtroom.

incorrect. Any out of court statement being offered for the truth of the matter asserted is, by definition, hearsay, outside defined excpetions. As far as depos, you can use inconsistent statements at depos for impeachment purposes or rebuttal but you cannot simply just file a depo transcript and leave it at that under most circumstances. The only circumstances in which depos can be used as actual testimony are 1) the witness is dead; 2) the witness lives too far away for his appearance at trial to be reasonable; 3) the witness would be unavailable due to age, health, or imprisonment; 4) the party being deposed refused to appear upon an issued subpoena; 5) for other exceptional purposes.

Yes depositions are sworn testimony, but they are still out of court statements and, by definition, are hearsay unless they fall under very limited exceptions.

quote:

But a deposition in and of itself is not an out of court statement

actually, by definition it is 100% is an out of court statement outside the aforementioned exceptions.

If depositions were not generally hearsay, no one would ever question witnesses at trial. They'd just question everyone at depos and make closing arguments.
This post was edited on 4/1/19 at 2:41 pm
Posted by ellessuuuu
Member since Sep 2004
9174 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 2:59 pm to
It depends on the situation. Every case I've tried involved the use of deposition in place of live testimony (either unavailable witnesses or outside the subpoena power of the court). It also goes to the purposes of the deposition. Is it strictly a discovery deposition or is it a trial deposition? The more likely scenario is that it is a deposition for all purposes.

If it's a trial deposition or a deposition for all purposes, it is in fact a statement made in court because the parties have agreed that the deposition is taken in place of live testimony.

Now that we jumped a fun academic exercise, I think we are on the same page as to whether it impacts Wade.
This post was edited on 4/1/19 at 3:00 pm
Posted by mmcgrath
Indianapolis
Member since Feb 2010
37175 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 3:01 pm to
Whenever it starts "getting real" for a defendant. If the depositions and hiring of experts gets costly, it can happen then. If price isn't an issue then at jury selection or opening arguments. Particularly after opening arguments if the defendant was delusional about how strong the case is against them.
Posted by ninthward
Boston, MA
Member since May 2007
22142 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 3:01 pm to
quote:

When the jury is in the hallway.
Pretty much. I was going to say on the courthouse steps.
Posted by lsufball19
Franklin, TN
Member since Sep 2008
71515 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 3:55 pm to
quote:

It depends on the situation. Every case I've tried involved the use of deposition in place of live testimony (either unavailable witnesses or outside the subpoena power of the court). It also goes to the purposes of the deposition. Is it strictly a discovery deposition or is it a trial deposition? The more likely scenario is that it is a deposition for all purposes.

If it's a trial deposition or a deposition for all purposes, it is in fact a statement made in court because the parties have agreed that the deposition is taken in place of live testimony.



I'm assuming your field is civil litigation where you are frequently needing to call out of state witnesses? Those types of depos do fit under the exceptions I listed.

My field is domestic litigation. Most of the cases I handle involve parties and witnesses residing in the same general area, and when I conduct a deposition it is typically 1) because there are local rules that limit the amount of formal discovery I can issue; 2) their written discovery responses, I know, are full of lies so I basically want to cross them on their responses to catch them in a lie or get them to hang themselves at depos so their testimony at trial will either also hang them or kill their credibility (these are my personal favorites and a useful tool for negotiation); or 3) because I want information from a non-party that I can't get through written discovery or a subpoena.

It is very rare that any deposition I would take would fall under an exception to hearsay. The most common hearsay exceptions I face are statements by children under the age of 12 when it deals with abuse or neglect and obviously the business records exception when dealing with medical/school records primarily.

But by and large, there are very few instances when depos in my field are not going to be hearsay.
This post was edited on 4/1/19 at 6:13 pm
Posted by ellessuuuu
Member since Sep 2004
9174 posts
Posted on 4/1/19 at 5:28 pm to
You are correct. Two different litigation fields, two different perspectives.
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