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Scandinavian free colleges are not so free. Some grads have more debt than Americans.

Posted on 11/26/18 at 12:22 pm
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 12:22 pm
quote:

According to Sen. Sanders, “It is insane and counter-productive to the best interests of our country and our future, that hundreds of thousands of bright young people cannot afford to go to college, and that millions of others leave school with a mountain of debt that burdens them for decades. That shortsighted path to the future must end.”

So Sanders would probably be just as shocked as I was to learn that there is student debt in Scandinavia despite their lack of university tuition, and a lot of it. While tuition is free, room and board are not. Paradoxically, offering free tuition seems to have incentivized students to be more likely to rack up debt by moving out early. While it’s becoming more common for American students to save money by living at home and attending a two-year community college, there’s less incentive to do so with “free” tuition.

In 2015 Swedes who borrowed to attend college had an average $17,266 in debt.

In Norway, the average student graduated with 280,000 NOK in debt in 2016. That amounts to roughly $32,000.
For contrast, the average student debt for someone graduating in America’s class of 2015 was approximately $30,100.

Student debt levels in Norway are on par with America (despite the almost non-existent ROI on a Norwegian college education), and Swedes have roughly half as much debt, but only in nominal terms. Interestingly, while having less debt per-student that takes out debt, a larger percentage of Swedish students have debt than Americans.

In 2004, 85% of Swedish students graduated with debt, compared to 50% of U.S. students. While Swedes have less debt per-capita, the reduced ROI on a Scandinavian college education relative to an American one means that American students graduate with average debt-to-income ratios of 57%, compared to 79% in Sweden.

In other words, relative to income, American students do indeed have less debt than Swedes and Norwegians.


LINK
This post was edited on 11/26/18 at 3:12 pm
Posted by Ten Bears
Florida
Member since Oct 2018
4680 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 12:24 pm to
well...then I guess we have to pat for Norway's student debt too..
Posted by Robin Masters
Birmingham
Member since Jul 2010
34837 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 12:25 pm to
One of the most valuable lessons anyone can learn: “ain’t nothin’ free”.
Posted by Wtodd
Tampa, FL
Member since Oct 2013
68460 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 12:36 pm to
When should we blame the parents for not living near a college?
Posted by idlewatcher
Planet Arium
Member since Jan 2012
92038 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 12:37 pm to
Wonder if ROI is on par with how much debt you have after you graduate.

In other words, how can schools justify charging students more per class hour without there being a tangible result?
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 12:46 pm to
quote:

Wonder if ROI is on par with how much debt you have after you graduate.




College degrees from free colleges are not that beneficial in Scandinavian counties in terms of earnings. Whereas in America the education you pay for is more valuable in terms of earnings.

Posted by Sidicous
NELA
Member since Aug 2015
19296 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

well...then I guess we have to pat for Norway's student debt too..
We already are by funding the military protection through NATO, which by the time that is filtered through so many skimming hands, explains the student debt.
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
44121 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 1:59 pm to
quote:

One of the most valuable lessons anyone can learn: “ain’t nothin’ free”.


Heinlein said it best: "TANSTAAFL"
Posted by Mooreman
Kildare , Ireland
Member since May 2016
872 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 2:37 pm to
We have practically free college here. We pay about 2k per year and the gov pays the rest. Gives everyone a fair shot and that's why ireland has an upwardly mobile society. It doesn't hold certain parts of society down generationally. Everyone has a shot.

Neither of my parents went to college, yet me and my brother have post grads (free) and high paying jobs. Meaning the taxpayer invested in us and we will pay back in spades.

Also , while our country is great in this way. We're still miles behind the Scandis, my own brother did a masters in Sweden... for... you guessed it...free... zero... No money paid. No scholarship needed. He got a uni masters in marketing and a great experience.

So, in other words, you're completely wrong and the US system is a shitbox meant to keep people down.

Fact.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
154316 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:07 pm to
We have the best universities in the world. We lower standards and give free shite for those same people.

You are an arrogant Eurotrash fellow.

Fact

Now stfu pot-licker.
This post was edited on 11/26/18 at 3:13 pm
Posted by Jrv2damac
KS (mountain time)
Member since Mar 2004
71884 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:13 pm to
All those taxes and college isn’t fricking free?
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:13 pm to
quote:

So, in other words, you're completely wrong and the US system is a shitbox meant to keep people down.

Fact.



How do you explain the data to the contrary?
Posted by Jrv2damac
KS (mountain time)
Member since Mar 2004
71884 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 3:21 pm to
quote:

We have practically free college here. We pay about 2k per year and the gov pays the rest.


Practically free. It’s bullshite semantics like this that is the problem when your view is presented.
quote:

Gives everyone a fair shot and that's why ireland has an upwardly mobile society. It doesn't hold certain parts of society down generationally. Everyone has a shot.


Tell that to your fellow homeless Irishmen as the EU shoves migrants down your throat who haven’t paid a cent to the Irish state.

quote:

Neither of my parents went to college, yet me and my brother have post grads (free) and high paying jobs.

Ok, great.

quote:

Meaning the taxpayer invested in us and we will pay back in spades.
So what’s the difference between this scenario and investing in someone getting a shitty degree? Subsidy or investment?

quote:

Also , while our country is great in this way. We're still miles behind the Scandis, my own brother did a masters in Sweden... for... you guessed it...free... zero... No money paid. No scholarship needed. He got a uni masters in marketing and a great experience.


Ok, great.

quote:

So, in other words, you're completely wrong and the US system is a shitbox meant to keep people down. Fact.


Then quit coming to this country for college from abroad, assholes.
Posted by AbuTheMonkey
Chicago, IL
Member since May 2014
8521 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 4:41 pm to
quote:

We have practically free college here. We pay about 2k per year and the gov pays the rest. Gives everyone a fair shot and that's why ireland has an upwardly mobile society. It doesn't hold certain parts of society down generationally. Everyone has a shot.

Neither of my parents went to college, yet me and my brother have post grads (free) and high paying jobs. Meaning the taxpayer invested in us and we will pay back in spades.

Also , while our country is great in this way. We're still miles behind the Scandis, my own brother did a masters in Sweden... for... you guessed it...free... zero... No money paid. No scholarship needed. He got a uni masters in marketing and a great experience.

So, in other words, you're completely wrong and the US system is a shitbox meant to keep people down.

Fact.


It's almost like you didn't actually read the article posted.

Or, for that matter, understand how subsidies work, what purchasing power is, or how income mobility works.
This post was edited on 11/26/18 at 4:43 pm
Posted by GumboPot
Member since Mar 2009
138911 posts
Posted on 11/26/18 at 4:48 pm to
What is interesting is the "free" college in these Scandinavian countries did achieve one of the Democrat Party principles, equal outcomes. The difference in earnings between a high school education and a PhD in these Scandinavian countries is much smaller than the incremental difference in the U.S.

"Free" college just seems like a ploy for just more equal outcome initiatives.
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