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re: Open letter to Garrett Graves re: BR Loop

Posted on 8/13/18 at 8:04 pm to
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
67282 posts
Posted on 8/13/18 at 8:04 pm to
quote:

Why?
The Western portion of the loop will have wetlands mitigation issues. The Southern portion of the loop will either have wetlands issues if it goes near Bayou Manchac or will have major imminent domain pushback from NIMBY's, there is a ton of politics on the bridge location (which is the biggest single expense), tons of NIMBY problems with the northern stretch of the loop, and no one has even really seriously studied where the Eastern portion of the loop should go since it will definitely be the last portion that is built.

Just the bridge by itself will likely cost north of $1 billion dollars. At least they have finally narrowed it down to two potential sites. The real reason is they embezzle so much money on studies that there's no where near enough money at the state level to pay for the damn thing.
This post was edited on 8/13/18 at 8:06 pm
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
99779 posts
Posted on 8/13/18 at 8:55 pm to
Needs to be a complete loop I my opinion.

If you are only going to do half loop, it should run North from I-10 (starting before Gonzales) crossing (and connecting) I-12 between Walker and Livingston exits, then running west passing between Baker and Zachary and crossing the River between Alsen and Port Hudson in a west-southwest direction. Once past the Westside bend in the River near Alford, run it straight South to hit I-10 between Lobdell and Grosse Tete.
Posted by BogeyGolf
Minot
Member since Nov 2016
974 posts
Posted on 8/13/18 at 8:55 pm to
imminent domain > wetland mitigation

do it. has to be done. the rest is excuses. At minimum fix that fricking I-10 E exit on the bridge. good lord.
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
36530 posts
Posted on 8/13/18 at 9:14 pm to
A true loop is best, but if you are going to do a half loop or what I call a bypass is to run from 10 near Lobdell 415 to Plaquemine (serving Dow, etc.) then east to SG on east north of Gonzales across 10 to eventually tie into to 12near Walker
Posted by gthog61
Irving, TX
Member since Nov 2009
71001 posts
Posted on 8/13/18 at 9:19 pm to
quote:

No way man, according to this board elected officials go to DC to vote the way their constituency tells them to and thats it, bringing home pork to the home state is what democrats do.



You are a liar
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
52030 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 10:01 am to
quote:

Make it six lanes (minimum)


I agree. It shouldn't even be considered unless it's six lanes. This isn't just to alleviate traffic, it's to channel future growth so planning extra lanes for that now beats the hell out of doing it later. I would also include enough room in the right-of-way for future expansion of two more lanes in each direction (or they could become service roads).

quote:

with minimal exits and entrances


I disagree here because of the future growth issue. Such growth will demand more entrances/exits but will also help to spread traffic out more evenly as more people move out of the Denham and Prairieville clusters (especially those folks wanting to live in more rural areas but also want to get to their downtown or plant jobs without it taking an hour).

This is a rough estimate of what I envision (minus the sharp turns, of course ;) ).



The gray circles are where entrances/exits would likely appear (especially on either side of the river as well as at 10 in Prairieville). The branching roads at Lobdell, Addis, Plaquemine and St. Gabriel would be 4-lane surface roads (the one from St Gabe to LSU might need to be 6-laned with all the extra growth that is going on there right now as well as taking future growth into account).
Posted by DirtyMikeandtheBoys
Member since May 2011
19431 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 10:03 am to
You know it's bad when your driving on one of the busiest interstates in the country and you see a flashing yellow sign that says "Be Prepared to Stop"

Like WTF, on the interstate? That sign belongs at railroad crossings in rural areas and in front of schools, not on an interstate
Posted by doubleb
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2006
36530 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 10:07 am to
Great job, you did well.

And your plan is what I call minimal exits. It fits the existing road network but doesn't have exits every half mile or so.
Posted by DirtyMikeandtheBoys
Member since May 2011
19431 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 10:35 am to
Why not just expand the bridge and widen I-10 from the basin to BR to 6 lanes, and from the bridge to denham and to gonzales to 8 lanes?
Posted by tiger94gop
GEISMAR
Member since Nov 2004
2931 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 10:53 am to
Okay, did you actually read what you wrote, so you are saying that adding 10 to 20 miles more is equivalent to being dead stopped in BR? Also, if you make it through the bridge, then you have the traffic on 12 so on a Friday, there could potentially be a 1.5-3 hour delay through BR, but an added 30 minutes to bypass BR is too much?

I'm just thinking that you have not driven through BR in peak traffic areas, or you don't know 3127. If you take traffic from Gross Tete to D'ville, or Hammond to Gross Tete, just take away Truck traffic would eliminate a huge issue for BR. That is a "now" affordable solution. What you are saying about mitigation and a bridge are astronomical in your scenario. In mine, you deal with D'ville to Iberville, you could streamline exchanges, etc. The issue is that doesn't go through Graves district. Which I understand, but it does deal with a huge amount of the problems in his district, not all but a large portion.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57524 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 11:00 am to
quote:

It is damn near impossible to get approval to build roads through swamps/wetlands anymore
no it isnt. you just have to pay the right people.

and on the Fed level this could get passed rather easily. only thing is the Louisiana politicians would needed to get out of the way.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57524 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 11:01 am to
quote:

Loop is dead dead dead dead dead.......
what?


I saw to supertankers there this weekend.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57524 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 11:13 am to
Bard, I drew something very similar to this one night recently while drunk talking about this. But i crossed a little further north at plaquemine or even at morrison ville but the MS crossing would be longer there.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
52030 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 12:42 pm to
quote:

Why not just expand the bridge and widen I-10 from the basin to BR to 6 lanes, and from the bridge to denham and to gonzales to 8 lanes?


Excellent question!

Building more access for traffic shouldn't just be about "right now" it should be about 20, 30, even 50 years down the road. While your proposal would address the current issue, it only does so in a temporary manner.

To my way of thinking, the biggest issue with Baton Rouge traffic is the excess traffic flowing through it via the interstate. People travelling within Baton Rouge often want to use the interstate to get from A to B because it's big, has a higher speed limit, it has no red lights and it runs pretty much through the center of the area so it can often be far more convenient than using surface streets. Tens, possibly hundreds, of thousands of vehicles per day come through Baton Rouge along 10/12 and never stop. All adding extra lanes would do would be to increase the amount of those pass-through vehicles that could pass through at any given time.

So, at best, we might get a few years (or even a decade) of some slight relief before finding ourselves back in the same boat.

Creating a new loop along the lines I've given would do multiple things:

1. It would remove much of the pass-through traffic. Not having the traffic come through at all would negate a lot of the need for more expansion (other than for something like the Washington Street Exit bullshittery).

2. While not often thought of as such, the areas of Addis, Brusly and Plaquemine are all impacted by I10 traffic as well. The plan I outlined would not only give them another avenue of access to I-10 not choke-pointed by the Intracoastal but it would also give them a back-door into the Baton Rouge area via a new bridge (that would be fairly close to being equidistant between the Sunshine and I10 bridges).

3. Growth follows the interstates. By channeling some of this growth outward to more rural areas by giving them better interstate access you spread the population out more. This means less population clustering in areas that haven't yet been designed for such population (looking at you Prairieville). What I've proposed would open up not just vast swaths of land south of Baton Rouge for future development but it would also open up fricktons of land across the river as well as the lands south of 12.

4. This loop would run through unincorporated, largely vacant areas. Acquiring this land would be far easier and far less costly than tearing down profitable businesses and homes built on far more valuable properties.

5. By building a new loop, the impact on existing traffic is minimal to non-existent.
Posted by Bard
Definitely NOT an admin
Member since Oct 2008
52030 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 12:52 pm to
quote:

Bard, I drew something very similar to this one night recently while drunk talking about this. But i crossed a little further north at plaquemine or even at morrison ville but the MS crossing would be longer there.


I've thought on that myself (that was actually the first place I looked at for the new bridge). I ended up moving it farther south in order to give better access to plants in and around St. Gabriel (since they are a bit off the beaten path) as well as give access to the open lands south of Plaquemine and run through the middle of that large, open area of land between St. Gabriel & Prairieville.
Posted by goofball
Member since Mar 2015
16922 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

Growth follows the interstates. By channeling some of this growth outward to more rural areas by giving them better interstate access you spread the population out more


A very good reason why the West Bank and the north side are both good places to focus on highway infrastructure. Namely a bypass.


quote:

To my way of thinking, the biggest issue with Baton Rouge traffic is the excess traffic flowing through it via the interstate. People travelling within Baton Rouge often want to use the interstate to get from A to B because it's big, has a higher speed limit, it has no red lights and it runs pretty much through the center of the area so it can often be far more convenient than using surface streets. Tens, possibly hundreds, of thousands of vehicles per day come through Baton Rouge along 10/12 and never stop. All adding extra lanes would do would be to increase the amount of those pass-through vehicles that could pass through at any given time.


I agree completely. Widening I-10 is critical and needed, but it won’t solve everything. Alternative routes must be developed.
Posted by CarRamrod
Spurbury, VT
Member since Dec 2006
57524 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 1:02 pm to
the portion between 10 and 12 will be a hassle, buying all those people out.
Posted by KiwiHead
Auckland, NZ
Member since Jul 2014
28055 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 1:15 pm to
Your plan shows that you have taken the time to look at the situation and present thoughtful, well reasoned and researched ides. It shows that you have taken into consideration traffic flow patterns and the need for forethought in that it should be six as opposed to 4 lanes for future development. It is a workable, perhaps, ideal plan.


With that said, let me assure you that it will never work. You are not a "consultant" and there is not enough consideration of the environmental impact studies as well as economic impact as well as feasibility studies that need to go first in an ad nauseum manner

As such , you need to change your ideas, so that incorporates, if not outright replaces the building of roads with flashing signs and digital signs as well as payoffs to certain politicians and their friends of both political parties
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
32145 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 2:01 pm to
quote:

Make it six lanes (minimum) with minimal exits and entrances so that it would become the primary East West artery across the EBR metro region.



On the east side, the route you outlined should be 6 lanes with enough right of way and space between the overpass bents to add at least 2 more lanes in the future.

If the new bridge crossing includes only 4 lanes, it should it feature enough space to stripe in 6 lanes easily. They may need a rail crossing on that one. I’m sure that will complicate things.
This post was edited on 8/14/18 at 2:07 pm
Posted by member12
Bob's Country Bunker
Member since May 2008
32145 posts
Posted on 8/14/18 at 2:07 pm to
quote:

Bard, I drew something very similar to this one night recently while drunk talking about this. But i crossed a little further north at plaquemine or even at morrison ville but the MS crossing would be longer the


Haha. Yeah I threw something together on Paint for an old thread to show how I would do it. I will post it when I get home.
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