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The argument for social assistance programs as a net benefit for a productive society
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:19 pm
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:19 pm
Most conservatives dislike any time of "entitlement" program, or at the very least want them to be first on the chopping block when it comes to spending cuts. Typically the accusation is that liberals are too emotional in their policy analysis and only support these programs for feel good reasons. This is incorrect.
While I do believe there is a argument to be made for these programs on the basis of it just being a responsible thing to do, i also believe it behooves our society to nurture as healthy and well adjusted a populace as reasonably possible, as those people will then grow up to be more productive members of society, which will benefit America as a whole. I believe the stats support this.
-There’s considerable evidence that good old-fashioned welfare works well. Research on the Mothers' pension programs from the early 20th century showed that kids whose mothers received a very modest welfare check ended up with early-adult incomes that were 20 percent higher than those of mothers who didn’t receive checks, and were also 35 percent less likely to be underweight as adults and received additional schooling.
-More modern welfare programs work too. A January 2015 paper by David Brown, Amanda Kowalski, and Ithai Lurie studied Medicaid expansions in the 1980's and 90's and concluded that kids who benefited from expansion ended up paying more in cumulative taxes and receiving less in EITC disbursements than those who did not.
-Speaking of the EITC, in 2013, a paper by Michelle Maxfield found that kids whose parents benefited from increased EITC generosity had higher math scores, were more likely to graduate high school, and were more likely to complete one or more years of college.
-Indeed, it is in some ways likely that standard methods are undercounting the benefits of social assistance programs. Chloe East, Sarah Miller, Marianne Page, and Laura Wherry found in September 2017 that the grandchildren of low-income pregnant women who benefited from Medicaid expansion in the 1980s were less likely to suffer from low birth weight (which itself seems to correlate with low IQ, among other health problems).
As a society, we can, and should, take decisive action to reduce environmental contamination and improve the material living conditions of poor children and their parents. The evidence that doing this will have broad secondary benefits for cognitive development, and by proxy make them more productive adults, is overwhelming.
While I do believe there is a argument to be made for these programs on the basis of it just being a responsible thing to do, i also believe it behooves our society to nurture as healthy and well adjusted a populace as reasonably possible, as those people will then grow up to be more productive members of society, which will benefit America as a whole. I believe the stats support this.
-There’s considerable evidence that good old-fashioned welfare works well. Research on the Mothers' pension programs from the early 20th century showed that kids whose mothers received a very modest welfare check ended up with early-adult incomes that were 20 percent higher than those of mothers who didn’t receive checks, and were also 35 percent less likely to be underweight as adults and received additional schooling.
-More modern welfare programs work too. A January 2015 paper by David Brown, Amanda Kowalski, and Ithai Lurie studied Medicaid expansions in the 1980's and 90's and concluded that kids who benefited from expansion ended up paying more in cumulative taxes and receiving less in EITC disbursements than those who did not.
-Speaking of the EITC, in 2013, a paper by Michelle Maxfield found that kids whose parents benefited from increased EITC generosity had higher math scores, were more likely to graduate high school, and were more likely to complete one or more years of college.
-Indeed, it is in some ways likely that standard methods are undercounting the benefits of social assistance programs. Chloe East, Sarah Miller, Marianne Page, and Laura Wherry found in September 2017 that the grandchildren of low-income pregnant women who benefited from Medicaid expansion in the 1980s were less likely to suffer from low birth weight (which itself seems to correlate with low IQ, among other health problems).
As a society, we can, and should, take decisive action to reduce environmental contamination and improve the material living conditions of poor children and their parents. The evidence that doing this will have broad secondary benefits for cognitive development, and by proxy make them more productive adults, is overwhelming.
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:21 pm to narddogg81
quote:
frick off
Now that's the level headed and well reasoned analysis I come to the poli board for
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:22 pm to narddogg81
Well said.
No consevative is against a hand up. Everyone should be against the welfare state unless you are counting on them for votes.
No consevative is against a hand up. Everyone should be against the welfare state unless you are counting on them for votes.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:23 pm to Draconian Sanctions
tl;dr and downvote
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:23 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
-Indeed, it is in some ways likely that standard methods are undercounting the benefits of social assistance programs. Chloe East, Sarah Miller, Marianne Page, and Laura Wherry found in September 2017 that the grandchildren of low-income pregnant women who benefited from Medicaid expansion in the 1980s were less likely to suffer from low birth weight (which itself seems to correlate with low IQ, among other health problems).
Surely, then, there must be some evidence of population wide IQ increases amongst the "low-income" because of this. Anything showing that has occurred?
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:23 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
Most conservatives dislike welfare programs
Until you bring up Social Security
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:25 pm to roadGator
The argument for a larger welfare state seems to be that there are large swaths of people who are dysfuntional and can't improve their lot in life. It's that same problem which will doom a large welfare system in the USA.
Just get rid of welfare as we have it and offer a work incentivized cash benefit.
Just get rid of welfare as we have it and offer a work incentivized cash benefit.
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm to Draconian Sanctions
This is a ridiculous stretch and a “correlation is not causation” example.
You could just as likely point to the bad decision making, lifestyle habits, and social pathologies that affect our underclass today and say that the welfare state subsidizes that behavior
Considering our poor have a lower labor participation rate than anyone else, I’d say your central thesis about productivity is wrong
You could just as likely point to the bad decision making, lifestyle habits, and social pathologies that affect our underclass today and say that the welfare state subsidizes that behavior
Considering our poor have a lower labor participation rate than anyone else, I’d say your central thesis about productivity is wrong
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Get a job, you fricking leach
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:26 pm to Esquire
quote:
Until you bring up Social Security
Except Social Security is paid into over the lifetime of a career. Slightly different than your average sit at the house and collect without ever contributing. Please tell me you can see this difference.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:27 pm to roadGator
quote:
should be against the welfare state
you know i put welfare as kind of a catch all but it does have a connotation that isn't really applicable here, so i've edited my OP to reflect.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:29 pm to Esquire
quote:
Until you bring up Social Security
Most people realize it's doomed, and a perfect example of how US style welfare is always going to fail.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:30 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:the welfare state that has been getting larger and larger in the US for the past 50 years is a complete failure
I believe the stats support this.
27% of americans lived in poverty in 1967
29% of americans lived in poverty in 2012
$21.5 trillion spent and those are the results
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:30 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
This is a ridiculous stretch and a “correlation is not causation” example.
You can find anything on the net to support any position no matter how obsurd.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:31 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Considering our poor have a lower labor participation rate than anyone else
and why do they have a lower participation rate? Are you saying environmental factors in childhood play no role at all?
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:32 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
and why do they have a lower participation rate?
Welfare programs that disincentivize work
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:34 pm to roadGator
nothing worse than seeing someone on welfare with 4-5 kids. use a fricking condom for christs sake
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:34 pm to TaderSalad
quote:
Please tell me you can see this difference.
It's welfare for the financially illiterate.
quote:
Slightly different than your average sit at the house and collect without ever contributing
If you have tax-paying job and also collect food stamps, does that mean it isn't welfare?
Posted on 4/10/18 at 3:34 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Welfare programs that disincentivize work
this is overstated as the safety net already has substantial incentives built in to incentive work
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