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NBA’s “deadball era”
Posted on 4/10/18 at 7:57 am
Posted on 4/10/18 at 7:57 am
It’s hard not to notice that overall team ppg is higher than recent years this year so I went look to see the overall throughout the years. I was surprised to see that compared to the 60’s through the 80’s there were only 3 seasons with a lower ppg than this year’s 106.3.
I grew up with basketball in the 90s through now so I guess I was just conditioned to lower scores. It seems like only the last couple of years are we coming out of what could be considered a “deadball era”
What factors would be responsible for such low ppg, especially in the 90’s?
I grew up with basketball in the 90s through now so I guess I was just conditioned to lower scores. It seems like only the last couple of years are we coming out of what could be considered a “deadball era”
What factors would be responsible for such low ppg, especially in the 90’s?
10
Posted on 4/10/18 at 7:59 am to Loungefly85
Lol they let thm play defense
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 8:00 am
Posted on 4/10/18 at 8:00 am to Loungefly85
People talk about Bad Boys type defense a lot, but as you see, scoring numbers were high at that point. Riley's Knicks and early Heat were a real thugball era.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 8:16 am to Bunk Moreland
quote:
People talk about Bad Boys type defense a lot, but as you see, scoring numbers were high at that point.
Cheap shots and good defense are different things.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 8:20 am to Loungefly85
ISO ball from the 90's. An emphasis on the 3 point shot, and pace increased ppg in recent years.
ETA: you can look at FG% and see that it's not necessarily due to defense.
ETA: you can look at FG% and see that it's not necessarily due to defense.
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 8:22 am
Posted on 4/10/18 at 8:37 am to Loungefly85
It’s widely known in NBA circles that defense was not played in the 80’s. A lot of older folks (even on this site) act like the 80’s was an era of tough defense and basketball at its pinnacle. It’s just not true, and they are simply biased and touting basketball of their era. Even former NBA players from the 80’s do this. Go watch some games on YouTube from the 80’s... it’s non-stop back and forth one or two passes then an uncontested jump shot. Fast break the other way throw it to the post and he takes a shot. Back up the floor, one pass and a jump shot. It was constant up and down with little defense.
Now, in the 90’s, the game slowed down a lot. Coaches had their teams going deeper into the shot clock running their offense. Slower games means less possessions which means less points. Also, the late 90’s was the era of ISO ball. Constant clear outs and 1 on 1. And with the old illegal defense rules, there was literally nobody but the guys going 1 on 1 on an entire side of the floor. The game was getting hard to watch, which is why the NBA changed the illegal defense rules.
Here is an example of iso under the illegal defense rules. An entire side of the court was cleared out or else the defense would be called for illegal defense:
After the rule change in the early 00’s, this eventually led to the basketball we have today. Fast-paced, not nearly as much 1 on 1, hybrid man/zone defense, emphasis on shooting and less emphasis on post play, etc. Teams figured out this is how you score under the new rules. It took a while for teams to figure it out. And now that they have, you’ve been seeing an increase in points over the years since the rule change.
Now, in the 90’s, the game slowed down a lot. Coaches had their teams going deeper into the shot clock running their offense. Slower games means less possessions which means less points. Also, the late 90’s was the era of ISO ball. Constant clear outs and 1 on 1. And with the old illegal defense rules, there was literally nobody but the guys going 1 on 1 on an entire side of the floor. The game was getting hard to watch, which is why the NBA changed the illegal defense rules.
Here is an example of iso under the illegal defense rules. An entire side of the court was cleared out or else the defense would be called for illegal defense:
After the rule change in the early 00’s, this eventually led to the basketball we have today. Fast-paced, not nearly as much 1 on 1, hybrid man/zone defense, emphasis on shooting and less emphasis on post play, etc. Teams figured out this is how you score under the new rules. It took a while for teams to figure it out. And now that they have, you’ve been seeing an increase in points over the years since the rule change.
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 8:46 am
Posted on 4/10/18 at 8:49 am to Loungefly85
I can't think of anything in the history of sports more unwatchable than a 71-68 Knicks/Heat game in that era.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 8:51 am to PrimeTime Money
Good post.
What were the old illegal defense rules?
What were the old illegal defense rules?
Posted on 4/10/18 at 8:58 am to MidnightVibe
Basically, you had to stick on your man and your man only. If you were to double team, you had to sprint to double team a man. You couldn’t hang out in space and play an area between your man and the ball in a sort of soft double team. So it was easy to swing the ball around back then on a double team because the double was so telegraphed due to the rules.
If the ball was on the other side of the court, you weren’t allowed to go into the lane I believe. You had to be on the far side of the court outside of the lane.
If your man didn’t have the ball and was at the top of the key, you weren’t allowed to go below the free throw line.
So basically, you had to stick on your man or it was a violation.
One trick teams used to pull regularly was they’d have their center who mostly played around the basket shoot out to the 3-point line when his man wasn’t paying attention and yell at the ref to call illegal defense because his man didn’t follow him out to the 3-point line and he was illegal.
You can go look up all of the rules, but what it did was generate artificial spacing for offensive players. Now-a-days, teams create spacing with the threat of the 3-point shot. The better your team can shoot, the less further away defenders can get from their man, which creates more space on the floor.
Here’s an example of the Bulls yelling at the referee and telling him to call illegal defense:
If the ball was on the other side of the court, you weren’t allowed to go into the lane I believe. You had to be on the far side of the court outside of the lane.
If your man didn’t have the ball and was at the top of the key, you weren’t allowed to go below the free throw line.
So basically, you had to stick on your man or it was a violation.
One trick teams used to pull regularly was they’d have their center who mostly played around the basket shoot out to the 3-point line when his man wasn’t paying attention and yell at the ref to call illegal defense because his man didn’t follow him out to the 3-point line and he was illegal.
You can go look up all of the rules, but what it did was generate artificial spacing for offensive players. Now-a-days, teams create spacing with the threat of the 3-point shot. The better your team can shoot, the less further away defenders can get from their man, which creates more space on the floor.
Here’s an example of the Bulls yelling at the referee and telling him to call illegal defense:
This post was edited on 4/10/18 at 9:11 am
Posted on 4/10/18 at 9:05 am to Loungefly85
That 1995-96 Bulls defense might have been the greatest defense in the history of basketball: Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, Dennis Rodman, and Ron Harper all on the same team, simply suffocating and insurmountable
Posted on 4/10/18 at 9:30 am to Loungefly85
Defense got better.
The bad boy era was just shite athletes taking cheap shots. Old white guys love that era because it was the last time any white players could get respect around the league.
Jordan almost assuredly wasn't as good as Lebron. Literally the only thing even keeping Jordan afloat in the argument is his scoring. And we all know goddamn well that Lebron would have scored more than him back in the day.
The bad boy era was just shite athletes taking cheap shots. Old white guys love that era because it was the last time any white players could get respect around the league.
Jordan almost assuredly wasn't as good as Lebron. Literally the only thing even keeping Jordan afloat in the argument is his scoring. And we all know goddamn well that Lebron would have scored more than him back in the day.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 9:36 am to Loungefly85
When the so called deadball era started, the NBA had just went from 21 to 29 teams within a decade.
Now we're at 30 and haven't had expansion in 13 years
Now we're at 30 and haven't had expansion in 13 years
Posted on 4/10/18 at 9:37 am to ReauxlTide222
quote:
Jordan almost assuredly wasn't as good as Lebron. Literally the only thing even keeping Jordan afloat in the argument is his scoring. And we all know goddamn well that Lebron would have scored more than him back in the day.
Aren’t there about 20 other threads to troll with this bullshite?
Posted on 4/10/18 at 9:43 am to ReauxlTide222
I would love to see Mahorn, Rodman or John Salley try to guard Lebron on the perimeter 1 on 1 with the old illegal defense rules still in place lmao
Posted on 4/10/18 at 9:43 am to Loungefly85
I wish
Posted on 4/10/18 at 9:46 am to PrimeTime Money
It wasn’t really the “90’s” that had great defense - it was 1995-2004
Posted on 4/10/18 at 10:39 am to PrimeTime Money
quote:
Now-a-days, teams create spacing with the threat of the 3-point shot. The better your team can shoot, the less further away defenders can get from their man, which creates more space on the floor.
This is literally why they created the 3-point shot in the first place. In the 70s, teams would simply pack the lane with defenders (there was no defensive three second count). By giving more points for a perimeter shot, they hoped to provide space in the interior for the big men. It worked, it just took time as they essentially had to wait for a generation of kids to grow up with the three to get good at it.
The line was introduced in 79-80 and the league shot .280 from beyond the arc. They didn't get above 300 until 86-87. But in 94-95, the league average got to 359 and its been around 350-360 ever since (it was 359 last year, and 362 this year). So the late 90s is the first time you had to cover the arc. Attempts jumped from 10 to 15 per game but pace slowed way the hell down.
More three point attempts led to LESS scoring despite an increased percentage. It's almost entirely due to pace. Pace has picked back up to early 90s level, but still drags behind the 70s and 80s, which is why they scored more points. They had more possessions.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 10:50 am to theunknownknight
Its a combination of tweaks to the game, that have made offensive basketball flow better.
The removal of most illegal defense has done wonders for the game, but so has the emphasis on efficiency and the 3 ball; one of the deeper things you aught to notice, when looking at those offensive numbers, is the wild changes in offensive efficiency between eras, as well as pacing.
The NBA used to be a 100 possession/48 minutes a game league, where people jacked shots at huge rates to generate scoring; offensive basketball ground down to an 88 possession/48 nadir in 98-99. While this has only partially recovered, the improvements in efficiency and the utilization of the 3 have offset it, and scoring has rebounded accordingly.
The removal of most illegal defense has done wonders for the game, but so has the emphasis on efficiency and the 3 ball; one of the deeper things you aught to notice, when looking at those offensive numbers, is the wild changes in offensive efficiency between eras, as well as pacing.
The NBA used to be a 100 possession/48 minutes a game league, where people jacked shots at huge rates to generate scoring; offensive basketball ground down to an 88 possession/48 nadir in 98-99. While this has only partially recovered, the improvements in efficiency and the utilization of the 3 have offset it, and scoring has rebounded accordingly.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 11:47 am to PrimeTime Money
This is a summary of the evolution of NBA rules.
LINK
In addition to illegal defense, handchecking was simply allowed prior to the mid-90's. Teams like the Knicks would take full advantage. It was until 2004 that there was a comprehensive change to stop handchecking. It's no accident that scoring began its uptick around then.
Another part is pace. The pace of play in the 70's and 80's was actually very fast. See the pace stat here:
LINK
It bottomed out in the deadball era you talk about it. Not to blame the Knicks again, but they had success without a ton of talent by playing slow and slugging it out. That spawned imitators.
Nowadays, teams like the Warriors and Rockets have had success with pace and threes, and you see the shift to mimicking them.
LINK
In addition to illegal defense, handchecking was simply allowed prior to the mid-90's. Teams like the Knicks would take full advantage. It was until 2004 that there was a comprehensive change to stop handchecking. It's no accident that scoring began its uptick around then.
Another part is pace. The pace of play in the 70's and 80's was actually very fast. See the pace stat here:
LINK
It bottomed out in the deadball era you talk about it. Not to blame the Knicks again, but they had success without a ton of talent by playing slow and slugging it out. That spawned imitators.
Nowadays, teams like the Warriors and Rockets have had success with pace and threes, and you see the shift to mimicking them.
Posted on 4/10/18 at 2:03 pm to Rep520
Could you imagine Lebron playing under the same league rules as Jordan. He would average 40. Durant and Harden might average even more.
Too quick for a forward and too powerful for a guard. MJ got iso every play against usually an undersized player.
Too quick for a forward and too powerful for a guard. MJ got iso every play against usually an undersized player.
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