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Started By
Message
South Africa spin off thread: the legacy of Rhodesia.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 4:53 pm
Posted on 2/28/18 at 4:53 pm
Rhodesia had a very bad record on political rights for the black majority. They could not vote or hold high public offices. That alone is worth rich derision
But the Rhodesian people were able to do what no other African nation at the time could (except maybe SA). Build a major western style economy that provided good living standards. Salisbury, Rhodesia was an economy jewel of the African continent.
The white settlers brought with them a lot of human capital and that bled over to black rhodesians. Everyone benefited to varying degrees
The country was truly the breadbasket of Africa, and the high productivity allowed to a generous social welfare system including healthcare and education that even blacks were entitled to.
One wonders what rhodesia would like today if Ian Smith’s descendants and his (racist) party still held power.
Political rights are worth more in long run than economic comfort, but I think Mugabe went way too far in testing down the economic structure that white settlers built there
But the Rhodesian people were able to do what no other African nation at the time could (except maybe SA). Build a major western style economy that provided good living standards. Salisbury, Rhodesia was an economy jewel of the African continent.
The white settlers brought with them a lot of human capital and that bled over to black rhodesians. Everyone benefited to varying degrees
The country was truly the breadbasket of Africa, and the high productivity allowed to a generous social welfare system including healthcare and education that even blacks were entitled to.
One wonders what rhodesia would like today if Ian Smith’s descendants and his (racist) party still held power.
Political rights are worth more in long run than economic comfort, but I think Mugabe went way too far in testing down the economic structure that white settlers built there
17
Posted on 2/28/18 at 4:57 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
If you like military history google the RLI, Rhodesian Light Infantry. More than a few Americans served with them after tours in Vietnam.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 4:59 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Ian Smith was something of a reformer over the past governments at the time. He had been quickly desegregating the country in the 1960's but Mugabe and his bunch did not want any sharing of power.
Yes, Salisbury was the most modern city probably in all of Africa at the time. Think about it. The British move in there around 1880....the locals had not even heard of the wheel and there were no horses. The European introduced those two things and along with effective farming techniques the place took off
Yes, Salisbury was the most modern city probably in all of Africa at the time. Think about it. The British move in there around 1880....the locals had not even heard of the wheel and there were no horses. The European introduced those two things and along with effective farming techniques the place took off
Posted on 2/28/18 at 5:01 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Rhodesia was awesome and should still exist. /thread
Posted on 2/28/18 at 5:06 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:
If you like military history google the RLI, Rhodesian Light Infantry. More than a few Americans served with them after tours in Vietnam.
They don't call it the Rhodesian web for nothing.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 5:16 pm to LSUTigersVCURams
It was not awesome
8% of the population controlled everything
But it brought western standards of living to a very poor area
8% of the population controlled everything
But it brought western standards of living to a very poor area
Posted on 2/28/18 at 5:39 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
It ended up playing out quite a bit like events did during the Haitian Revolution:
- A dominating white minority that held out way too long in making an accommodation with a moderate black faction
- Two major black factions that hated each other almost as much as they hated the whites and fought each other quite a bit (gens de couleur and slaves in Haiti, ZANU/Shona and ZAPU/Ndebele in Rhodesia)
- Played out really as three party wars that were constantly aligning, re-aligning, and so forth
- Large outside powers at times influencing and arming rebel factions (Spain and Britain in Haiti, USSR and China in Rhodesia)
- Previous white faction gets over-run as soon as the shooting stops
- Two black factions almost immediately at each other's throats when the wars end
The Rhodesian Army fighting against the ZANU and ZAPU was majority black by the time the bush wars ended. Weird to think about.
- A dominating white minority that held out way too long in making an accommodation with a moderate black faction
- Two major black factions that hated each other almost as much as they hated the whites and fought each other quite a bit (gens de couleur and slaves in Haiti, ZANU/Shona and ZAPU/Ndebele in Rhodesia)
- Played out really as three party wars that were constantly aligning, re-aligning, and so forth
- Large outside powers at times influencing and arming rebel factions (Spain and Britain in Haiti, USSR and China in Rhodesia)
- Previous white faction gets over-run as soon as the shooting stops
- Two black factions almost immediately at each other's throats when the wars end
The Rhodesian Army fighting against the ZANU and ZAPU was majority black by the time the bush wars ended. Weird to think about.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 5:41 pm to AbuTheMonkey
Yep! And those boys were not afraid to jump at 300 feet WITH gear, crazy
Posted on 2/28/18 at 5:42 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
They were a net exporter of corn then,now they cant feed themselves,but at least whitey ain't in charge no more.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 5:45 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
It was not awesome
8% of the population controlled everything
But it brought western standards of living to a very poor area
but 92% of the country was apparently too stupid to fend for themselves
This post was edited on 2/28/18 at 6:14 pm
Posted on 2/28/18 at 5:48 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
If anyone is interested in Ian Smith and Rhodesia and understanding the complexity of the situation, check out this interview with William F Buckley in the early 1970's: Interesting in how they intended to solve the enfranchisement issue of the black populace.
LINK
LINK
Posted on 2/28/18 at 5:54 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
Posted on 2/28/18 at 6:11 pm to KiwiHead
quote:
Yes, Salisbury was the most modern city probably in all of Africa at the time. Think about it. The British move in there around 1880....the locals had not even heard of the wheel and there were no horses. The European introduced those two things and along with effective farming techniques the place took off
Only because Wakanda was selfish and keep all the great Black science advancements to themselves.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 6:16 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
One wonders what rhodesia would like today if Ian Smith’s descendants and his (racist) party still held power.
It would be fricking awesome.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 6:20 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
Political rights are worth more in long run than economic comfort,
I disagree.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 6:27 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
It was not awesome
8% of the population controlled everything
But it brought western standards of living to a very poor area
Democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be. Most people in this world are not capable of ruling themselves and need governments like the one in Rhodesia to keep order and make the most of their countries. Cry that it's racist all you want, but it worked much better than any alternative system there.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 6:29 pm to Loserman
quote:
Only because Wakanda was selfish and keep all the great Black science advancements to themselves.
I was thinking of this.
Wakanda is the only place in Africa that has fully adopted Western civilization and it's working great.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 6:32 pm to Malik Agar
quote:
Democracy isn't all it's cracked up to be.
I disagree with this.
quote:
Most people in this world are not capable of ruling themselves and need governments like the one in Rhodesia to keep order and make the most of their countries.
I agree with this. Don’t believe the sentiments? Just look at what happened to Iraq when we toppled Hussein.
Posted on 2/28/18 at 6:33 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
What's wrong with only letting taxpayers vote?
Posted on 2/28/18 at 6:41 pm to Mo Jeaux
quote:
I disagree.
Not a Patrick Henry fan I imagine
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