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re: How one can even start to discuss this shooting w/o accepting the following FACTS?
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:39 am to Iosh
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:39 am to Iosh
quote:
I don't have to "give counterpoint" to support opposition. I freely admit I have no particular pet theory to explain the rise in school shootings. That doesn't change my criticisms of yours.
Criticism of a point without having the ability to provide any supporting evidence to justify said criticism signals ignorance and an unwillingness to accept reality.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:39 am to ShortyRob
quote:
3. Prior to 1990, there were an estimated 155 shootings in schools in US HISTORY!
4. Since 1990, there have been 313.
Do both of these numbers for each time period calculate school shootings the same? I saw where a suicide on school ground was considered a school shooting and where a shooting that happened in the parking lot (possible drug transaction) were also counted as a school shooting.
In other words, yes a suicide is tragic and you don't want that happening at your school, but that's not on the same level as a gunman entering school and opening fire on unarmed students.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:42 am to bfniii
quote:
and you are wrong. ever heard of a pressure cooker? how about a uhaul truck?
people will find a way. soft targets are going to continue to be a problem
most people aren't going to go through the trouble of making bombs, etc. and still kill at the same frequency as they do with guns. it'll happen, but not nearly as often. people use guns because they want to be feared, be seen, and they want to escape or kill themselves.
when was the last time you heard of mass pipe/pressure cooker bombings in countries with fewer guns? never, cause it rarely, if ever, happens.
most european countries allow guns with strict regulations. none of those countries are being bombarded with homemade explosives on a daily basis. that argument is asinine.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:47 am to ShortyRob
quote:
3. Prior to 1990, there were an estimated 155 shootings in schools in US HISTORY!
4. Since 1990, there have been 313.
That is also around the time the Computer revolution was in full steam...Social Media started in the mid-1990's..I guess you don't see a correlation there?
The use of a gun was merely the tool of use. We have seen in gun control countries like France that they either obtain weapons illegally and shoot up places or use big frigging trucks to plow down people.
Perhaps focusing on the causes of the behavior would be a better place to focus rather than going after the tool that was used.
Make Social Media sites like Facebook and Instagram Civilly liable for allowing dangerous posts to occur and make them start writing some big checks for damage and they will clean shite up
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:49 am to ShortyRob
quote:
ShortyRob
My analysis is there are more people in the world which means more crazies. The crazies have access to more information then ever before. There are more guns out there than ever.
A bad combination.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:50 am to ShortyRob
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:52 am to Iosh
quote:i have several problems with your insinuation.
So your argument is that a "rise in callousness and total disregard for human life" doesn't cause an overall rise in violence
first, look at the social unrest in the country. things are boiling over. especially on the west coast. crowds are violently clashing
second, violent crime in america has gone up overall. there has been a recent dip.
third, there is more violent crime when there are fewer traditional, nuclear families. this is just a demographic, statistical fact.
fourth, the point has been made in this thread that when people are inculcated with the idea that they are sophisticated skin bags of meat and water, the human being loses it's sacrosanct value. we're just being buffeted by the whims of our base, biological nature. sure i don't have the right to take life but society drove me to this point. it's not really my fault per se. it's those idiots at fox news who aren't handing out participation trophies.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:53 am to CU_Tigers4life
If social media is the cause, why doesn’t it happen in other western civilization countries with the same volume as the US?
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:54 am to Giantkiller
quote:what makes you think the gun lobby has anything to do with anything?
I've accepted the fact that the gun lobby will never be stopped?
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:56 am to ShortyRob
quote:EXACTLY. the left wants to focus on the effect, not the cause. the gun is downstream. how did the situation even get to that point to begin with? banning the effect is not going to solve the underlying problem. this is simple rca, root cause analysis.
WTF is driving THAT spike?!
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:57 am to Masterag
quote:So... your position is that someone motivated enough to kill 17 class mates... is too lazy to make a bomb? Interesting position to say the least.
most people aren't going to go through the trouble of making bombs, etc.
quote:
most european countries allow guns with strict regulations. none of those countries are being bombarded with homemade explosives on a daily basis.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:59 am to LSU Wayne
quote:
This is a f'ed up interview on many levels
KHOU interview with supposed witness
bitch is a crazy, lying attention whore. she didn't talk to the shooter.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 10:00 am to ShortyRob
This is similar to what I posted yesterday. Why is no one talking about the fundamental causes to the increased frequency of these?
Is it due to the decay of the family unit? Are violent movies and video games to blame? Does the media’s fascination with these shootings contribute to it? Is it due to mental illness? Etc.
The “gun control” argument does not explain nor solve the issue as most of these shootings are occurring in schools and churches where guns are not allowed in the first place.
Is it due to the decay of the family unit? Are violent movies and video games to blame? Does the media’s fascination with these shootings contribute to it? Is it due to mental illness? Etc.
The “gun control” argument does not explain nor solve the issue as most of these shootings are occurring in schools and churches where guns are not allowed in the first place.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 10:02 am to Redleg Guy
Well, It would take the population of the top 5 Western nations to match that of the US...
Posted on 2/15/18 at 10:02 am to Masterag
quote:ridiculous statement. ar 15's are readily available. take that away and people are going to turn to whatever else they can make happen.
most people aren't going to go through the trouble of making bombs, etc. and still kill at the same frequency as they do with guns
or just keep being naive.
quote:unsupported assertion
it'll happen, but not nearly as often
quote:you're still looking downstream.
people use guns because they want to be feared, be seen, and they want to escape or kill themselves.
quote:post hoc ergo, propter hoc
when was the last time you heard of mass pipe/pressure cooker bombings in countries with fewer guns?
quote:again, not comparing apples to apples. we're not talking about europe. we're talking about america. they have TOTALLY different social dynamics.
most european countries allow guns with strict regulations. none of those countries are being bombarded with homemade explosives on a daily basis. that argument is asinine.
regardless, you're still wrong
Posted on 2/15/18 at 10:09 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
So... your position is that someone motivated enough to kill 17 class mates... is too lazy to make a bomb? Interesting position to say the least
Bombs are political tools normally. Guns are more personal and give the shooter a sense of power over his victims.
Most of these perpetrators are powerless and forgotten in their daily lives.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 10:09 am to ShortyRob
quote:
I don't think man is naturally more evil today than he was 40 years ago.
Perhaps not, but I know that back in my day, all the way back into the 40s and 50s, evil was not tolerated like it is today. A kid that got out of line got his arse whipped. Nobody made up reasons why 'it wasn't his fault - he was bullied, etc" Kids were expected to take the 'slings and arrows of outrageous insult' and go on about their business. Nobody gave you any attention just because someone 'hurt your feelings' - you were told 'sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never hurt yuo.'
I cannot even relate to all the mass hysteria in the past decade about some stupid WORD that someone was TRIGGERED by.
Guns were everywhere - I kept a .22 rifle in my truck going to school. So did all my friends. We were taught from the earliest moment that guns were dangerous - that they were always to be treated as though they were loaded. Nobody had any illusions about how dangerous they were.
Families were the backbone of the society. I never knew anyone who came from a 'broken home' -
What is at the bottom of all this crap is the 50 f'n YEARS of the DEMOCRAT party eating away at all the concepts of family and individual honor that has been the fundamental support structure of the American experience. The DEMOCRAT party is the responsible agent for encouraging kids to grow without strict moral guidance - the them, anything goes and it is always somebody else fault.
"Progressive" policy has nurtured this dysfunctional society.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 10:12 am to bfniii
quote:
regardless, you're still wrong
lol at those stats... "frequency per million people" well no shite they're going to be higher if you use that dishonest metric, we have a ton more people than any european country.
quote:
take that away and people are going to turn to whatever else they can make happen.
bullshite. it doesn't happen everywhere else, that's pure and simple fact.
quote:
post hoc ergo, propter hoc
i'm not sure you know what this means if you think that somehow negates my argument.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 10:12 am to Terry the Tiger
life has been cheapened so much over the years, I would bet the shooter knew several girls who have had abortions, maybe even sisters, cousins, mom even. After a while with it being all around you, music, tv, movies, family, friends, etc., life cheapened so much that it is no big deal to take a life, it has to change some people.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 10:15 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:
Well this isn't "Nature" so by all means, expand on your theories.
I will probably start another thread on it.
But, the bottom line on it is that I think it's been an incremental thing over time that can almost be traced back to theories on parenting espoused by people like Dr. Spock.
I have always said that I'm not "raising children", I'm "developing adults".
There has been a fundamental focus on the idea that a child's self esteem is a paramount thing to value. Intuitively, this might seem to make sense. But, self esteem doesn't come from people protecting you from negative things. Self esteem comes from learning to navigate negative things.
We have placed so much focus on shielding our children from all negative impacts on their feelings that we've actually had the OPPOSITE of the stated desire. I submit, we've largely REDUCED their self-esteems.
We've gone from "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me" to "names harm me and I cannot recover from them unless people are punished".
It's a very bad paradigm.
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