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re: How one can even start to discuss this shooting w/o accepting the following FACTS?
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:26 am to Redleg Guy
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:26 am to Redleg Guy
quote:It isn't. Sadly.
Why is this an America only problem?
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:26 am to AUstar
Times are completely different. For all the people who debate spankings, I think this is a valid point of argument. Kids nowadays are disciplined with hugs and candy. 80's kids and before were disciplined with an iron fist from mom and dad. There's a huge fall off in the makeup of the modern family. Divorce rate is through the roof, children are had out of wedlock with no family built around them. Kids raise themselves with the help of tv and social media.
Simply, you can't compare stats from pre 1990 to today's, its a completely different world.
Simply, you can't compare stats from pre 1990 to today's, its a completely different world.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:27 am to Jake88
quote:
You're emotional. Make some tea and catch your breath.
Does it make you happier to know your child has a much greater chance of dying in an automobile accident?
Oh I've caught my breath. Nothing will happen. I'm sad that it's the way we've become in this country but I've accepted it. The guns won and I'm not standing in their way.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:27 am to Darth_Vader
quote:So your argument is that a "rise in callousness and total disregard for human life" doesn't cause an overall rise in violence, but does cause a very specific rise in a very specific kind of mass murder? Seems like a poor argument.
The evil we are seeing on the rise is not an overall rise in violence, it’s the rise in a callousness and total disregard for human life.
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 9:28 am
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:27 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
Unlikely. Said research would likely paint the education system in a poor light
Oh. I think it's FAR deeper than just the Education system.
Remember. For all our griping about our education system, much of the shite they are doing is because of what parents demand.
I think what we consider accepted parenting standards today is fricked up personally. I've been saying that for 30 years. And this isn't just old guy talkin cause this old guy has two little ones NOW.
My children's peers are LIGHT YEARS behind them socially. And even then, I'm in a constant battle with what is "accepted/acceptable" around me.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:29 am to Giantkiller
quote:
Oh I've caught my breath. Nothing will happen. I'm sad that it's the way we've become in this country but I've accepted it. The guns won and I'm not standing in their way.
Oh stop it. You have already proven your ignorance.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:29 am to Masterag
quote:and you are wrong. ever heard of a pressure cooker? how about a uhaul truck?
this is demonstrably false
people will find a way. soft targets are going to continue to be a problem
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 9:30 am
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:30 am to Iosh
quote:See man.
So your argument is that a "rise in callousness and total disregard for human life" doesn't cause an overall rise in violence, but does cause a very specific rise in a very specific kind of mass murder? Seems like a poor argument.
Once in a blue moon, you and I are on the same wavelength.
You may need a shower.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:31 am to bfniii
quote:
and you are wrong. ever heard of a pressure cooker? how about a uhaul truck?
people will find a way. soft targets are going to continue to be a problem
This is the point the the left doesnt want to hear. People with evil intentions are going to find a way to kill regardless of the object at hand.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:32 am to Giantkiller
quote:we haven't done ANYTHING in this regard. i'm talking about a nationwide comprehensive program to identify mental illness and prevent those people from getting weapons. nothing has been done in this regard. in fact, the left doesn't even want to talk about it. they're too busy demonizing the inanimate objects used in the killings
Everybody says "Treat the mental illness", etc. That obviously isn't doing shite
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:33 am to BIGJLAW
I edited to add on my OP.
I think everyone needs to back up for a second.
My point is.........even if you 100% eliminated their access to things to kill people........we have a VERY fricking significant social phenomenon that STILL exists.
It's a damned elephant in the room.
I think everyone needs to back up for a second.
My point is.........even if you 100% eliminated their access to things to kill people........we have a VERY fricking significant social phenomenon that STILL exists.
It's a damned elephant in the room.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:34 am to Iosh
quote:
So your argument is that a "rise in callousness and total disregard for human life" doesn't cause an overall rise in violence, but does cause a very specific rise in a very specific kind of mass murder? Seems like a poor argument
You give absolutely no counterpoint to support your opposition. So I’ll ask, how do you on the one hand explain an overall decline in violent crime while seeing an absolute explosion in the rate of mass shootings, particularly school shootings?
It’s not the a ailabilty of guns. We had even more access to gun in the past than we do now.
It’s not bullies. Bullies have always been around.
It’s not mental health. If anything, kids are more likely to get access to mental health help today than in the past.
So what is the cause?
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 9:36 am
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:34 am to BIGJLAW
quote:
Oh stop it. You have already proven your ignorance.
How? Because I've accepted the fact that the gun lobby will never be stopped? If anything, it sounds like you've proven your ignorance to think anything will ever change. If you want anything to change.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:34 am to bfniii
quote:
Everybody says "Treat the mental illness", etc. That obviously isn't doing shite we haven't done ANYTHING in this regard.
Irrelevant to my OP.
If it were a mental illness issue, we wouldn't expect the stats to have changed much over the years. It ain't like we were experts at treating mental illness 40 years ago.
Hell. If we think mental illness is the driver, that just moves my OP question another step.
WTF is driving THAT spike?!
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:34 am to ShortyRob
quote:
Oh. I think it's FAR deeper than just the Education system.
Remember. For all our griping about our education system, much of the shite they are doing is because of what parents demand.
I think what we consider accepted parenting standards today is fricked up personally. I've been saying that for 30 years. And this isn't just old guy talkin cause this old guy has two little ones NOW.
My children's peers are LIGHT YEARS behind them socially. And even then, I'm in a constant battle with what is "accepted/acceptable" around me.
We can all agree that the people who commit these crimes are mentally unhinged. There is no doubt. We can argue the causes of the derangement all day.
What we can notice as a society is that these unhinged are attracted to a specific activity that before 1990's was rare. Shitty parents have always existed. Mentally unhinged have always existed. Guns have always been prevalent in our society. What happened in the 1990's to account for this increase in frequency?
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:36 am to Darth_Vader
quote:I don't have to "give counterpoint" to support opposition. I freely admit I have no particular pet theory to explain the rise in school shootings. That doesn't change my criticisms of yours.
You give absolutely no counterpoint to support your opposition.
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 9:36 am
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:37 am to Iosh
quote:Only following a meteoric increase the preceeding 15 years or so: FBI UCS Crime Reports 1960-2016 (scroll down for rates per 100,000 population)
Statistics for violent crime as a whole have dropped significantly over the last 40 years.
I find this data particularly interesting, since I was born in 1960. The odds of being murdered are about the same now as then, but a lot of that is related to the advanced medical technology keeping people alive following violent assaults that would have killed them 58 years ago. In comparison, check out the rates for other forms of violent crime:
Armed robbery: 58% increase
Aggravated assault: 288% increase
Forcible rape: 308% increase
The bad news is that there has been a recent uptick in all of these crimes in the last 3 years. Hopefully it doesn't become a trend.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:37 am to SidewalkDawg
quote:
What we can notice as a society is that these unhinged are attracted to a specific activity that before 1990's was rare. Shitty parents have always existed. Mentally unhinged have always existed. Guns have always been prevalent in our society. What happened in the 1990's to account for this increase in frequency?
This is my bottom line. I want to know THAT. Because all other questions related to this are bull shite until we have some damned clue on it.
Not gonna lie. I have my own theories based on some observation. But, they aren't studied.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:38 am to therick711
quote:and people like coulter get shouted down for merely stating the statistics on this matter. those stats match judeo-Christian values so they have to be suppressed or ignored. leftists just don't want to listen to reason.
We know what is going on. We have a breakdown in the family, higher incidence of divorce, the removal of social stigma to anti-social parental behavior, and a crazy amount of single parents. We also have a higher labor participation rate for mothers (which makes SJWs have a sad, but data don't lie). We don't want to acknowledge that this breakdown fed a social crisis. Look at any cause that is dear to your heart and control for single parent families, it is scary what it has done to children.
50 years ago this kind of thing was virtually unheard of. we carried guns in our gun racks of unlocked vehicles to school for crying out loud. what changed? the death of the nuclear family and the demise of the Christian church. no, no, no. it's these brand new weapons that make people go insane for just looking at them. AVERT YOUR EYES. IT'S A DEMON.
Posted on 2/15/18 at 9:39 am to ShortyRob
quote:
I have my own theories based on some observation. But, they aren't studied.
Well this isn't "Nature" so by all means, expand on your theories.
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