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Posted on 12/9/17 at 1:02 pm to LSUgrad08112
The first paragraph of your first post in this thread was spot on. The needs of the team are being addressed with quality recruits. Had you stopped there you probably would have gotten others to engage you in a good football conversation. But then you typed the second paragraph and look where this thread went.
You resemble a low 3 star recruit. Have the desire and passion to be elite but you still need considerable coaching and development of your skill sets. Good luck with that.
P.S. You should go back to the OP and see who actually started this thread. You have been wrong about it twice.
You resemble a low 3 star recruit. Have the desire and passion to be elite but you still need considerable coaching and development of your skill sets. Good luck with that.
P.S. You should go back to the OP and see who actually started this thread. You have been wrong about it twice.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 1:09 pm to THECEO
if signing a majority of 3 stars were to happen every year I would agree but that has not been the case. our coaches are better raters than the services and this year is a little different; instead of loading up on higher rated db's, rb's and wr's LSU is loading up in the trenches. if there is anyplace where a 3 star is underrated it is on the lines as long as the measurable are there. there is no question in my mind that our DL coaches (including O) will coach these guys up and I think our need on the OL is so great that we have had to pursue 3 stars there over 4 star's at the other positions.
as long as this class finishes strong with top rated CB's, QB's and RB's and finishes at or near the top 10 I think it will be a great class; a perfect supplement to last years class.
lastly, imo, there is very little difference between a #1 and #5 class and actually the #5 may turn out better. I feel the same way about #6 thru #10. I think LSU has better actual coaches now than we did in the last 5 years of Miles tenure and these guys can coach up talent much better. getting rid of chavis, haley and Cameron were very much addition by subtraction.
as long as this class finishes strong with top rated CB's, QB's and RB's and finishes at or near the top 10 I think it will be a great class; a perfect supplement to last years class.
lastly, imo, there is very little difference between a #1 and #5 class and actually the #5 may turn out better. I feel the same way about #6 thru #10. I think LSU has better actual coaches now than we did in the last 5 years of Miles tenure and these guys can coach up talent much better. getting rid of chavis, haley and Cameron were very much addition by subtraction.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 1:10 pm to LSU GrandDad
quote:lowering that bar for coach O some more I see.
imo, there is very little difference between a #1 and #5 class and actually the #5 may turn out better. I feel the same way about #6 thru #10
Posted on 12/9/17 at 1:13 pm to Tiger1988
quote:
With that said why did he let all those big uglies leave or run them off with his bullshite focus on a binder and not the player? He put himself into this position.
it seems our largest short term loss was Tehuma (sp) and it also seems that he just wasn't willing to pay the price of being a top guard at a top program anymore. most of the others were not that good. when a new coach takes over he evaluates who is going to be an asset and who isn't. he also sets the "tenor" of his team in regards to discipline and weeds out malcontents. seems like that's exactly what happened.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 1:20 pm to justice
quote:
lowering that bar for coach O some more I see.
get outta here; that's bull shite. i'm actually increasing the bar for Orgeron over the lackidazical end of Miles tenure. and if you don't know that the rating services ratings are an estimation than you are closing your eyes. they evaluate thousands of recruits and they are evaluating 16 and 17 year olds. much changes happen to a young man from then until they are 21. additionaly, these services have no way to evaluate "heart and desire".
your response is a pat one that is merely a repeat of a narrative I see in some of our fans. a narrative with an agenda. how you can intelligently respond like that to my post is beyond me.
if Orgeron doesn't produce better than Miles, he'll be a goner. and imo right now he's doing a better job than Miles since 2011. the "bar" you refer to is set by the big donors to LSU, not you and not I.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 1:25 pm to THECEO
To well thought out for the retards on this board to resist down voting.
My take. Stars do matter as does coaching. They go together for sound reasons. Saban is all about having a good process in place which more often than not produces good results. Contrast that with the recent process that resulted in Eaux being named HC.
My take. Stars do matter as does coaching. They go together for sound reasons. Saban is all about having a good process in place which more often than not produces good results. Contrast that with the recent process that resulted in Eaux being named HC.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 1:45 pm to THECEO
Too many moving pieces to get hung up on purely ratings BUT when you take a large sample the rating are usually solid. Some of the higher ranked kids had grown man bodies early in HS, look at Moses. Some didn’t grow much but will while in college. There isn’t a combine for these kids just film and educated guesses. Everyone needs to just relax and let the game be entertaining and not their identity.
Posted on 12/9/17 at 2:27 pm to lsusteve1
Anyone who says stars don't matter is a fool, plain and simple
Posted on 12/9/17 at 2:30 pm to tduecen
In astronomy stars do matter!
Posted on 12/9/17 at 9:39 pm to THECEO
Saban 2002-2004 signing classes:
2002 = 14 -3 stars
2003 = 10 -3 stars
2004 = 11 -3 stars
2002 = 14 -3 stars
2003 = 10 -3 stars
2004 = 11 -3 stars
Posted on 12/9/17 at 9:54 pm to LSUgrad08112
quote:
LSUgrad08112
Dude, relax.
If you can’t accept others opinions maybe message boards aren’t for you.
I know I don’t recognize you from the recruiting board, and from your amount of post it’s not like you contribute a lot around here, so why get all nuts over someone’s opinions?
Posted on 12/9/17 at 10:40 pm to THECEO
I think in the grand scheme of things, 4* and 5* need to be considered basically the same. Too many moving pieces to separate them especially position coaching (i.e. development) and their own individual effort.
That being said... I don't think 3* should be considered in the same breath as 4*.
Stars in general are just 1 piece of an informational puzzle. It is not stand alone. No matter if 3* or 5*. However, it is one of the 2 most significant pieces of the puzzle; the other being coaches evaluations (incl. HS coach feedback).
Just some things to consider:
A) Holes hurt and depth matters; you don't pass on a 3* this year to fill a hole next year.
B) [This is one that slips through alot] There's a reason more 5* get drafted. Future NFL potential is part of the star system (at least for 247). A huge part of that is the genetics and physical build.
Hence, and here's the real point, that was just setup... Utilization matters. If your coaches use a non-prototypical build player better than other teams, that star ranking (being partially there because of physical measurements) means less.
Here's an example:
Option 1- if your staff looks at a KaVontae Turpin and says I know exactly where he can be productive and where I'll use him then the 3* matters less
Option 2- if your staff looks at a KaVontae Turpin and says he's too short to be a WR for us, we need at least 6'1" (Gage) then the 3* matters.
That being said... I don't think 3* should be considered in the same breath as 4*.
Stars in general are just 1 piece of an informational puzzle. It is not stand alone. No matter if 3* or 5*. However, it is one of the 2 most significant pieces of the puzzle; the other being coaches evaluations (incl. HS coach feedback).
Just some things to consider:
A) Holes hurt and depth matters; you don't pass on a 3* this year to fill a hole next year.
B) [This is one that slips through alot] There's a reason more 5* get drafted. Future NFL potential is part of the star system (at least for 247). A huge part of that is the genetics and physical build.
Hence, and here's the real point, that was just setup... Utilization matters. If your coaches use a non-prototypical build player better than other teams, that star ranking (being partially there because of physical measurements) means less.
Here's an example:
Option 1- if your staff looks at a KaVontae Turpin and says I know exactly where he can be productive and where I'll use him then the 3* matters less
Option 2- if your staff looks at a KaVontae Turpin and says he's too short to be a WR for us, we need at least 6'1" (Gage) then the 3* matters.
Posted on 12/10/17 at 11:24 am to LSUgrad08112
quote:
this recruiting class is going to finish in the top 10.
I would be highly impressed if this is true but doubtful. Soon see but CO and staff seem to be doing a good job so far.
Posted on 12/10/17 at 11:28 am to THECEO
quote:
Stars DO matter? by THECEO
Not really.... I am not sure who was put in charge of putting "STAR" values on HS players but it means very little UNTIL you get them in college and coach them UP.... Or down... Miles took 5 star players and turned them into 3 star players while Saban has taken 3 star players and coached them into 5 star players.. He even took A converted DB and put him AT QB and won A NC...
Think about it......
Posted on 12/10/17 at 11:36 am to THECEO
As far as the linemen the number of stars is less important as lines have to work together and should improve as a unit with experience. Quarterbacks have to fit the offensive scheme and be highly rated. The same could also be said for many of the skill positions as they operate “on an island” a lot of the time and things like speed and athleticism are at a premium.
That being said I like this recruiting class a lot and am sure it will only get better going forward.
That being said I like this recruiting class a lot and am sure it will only get better going forward.
Posted on 12/10/17 at 12:00 pm to Tigers4life
quote:Well, to intentionally introduce a sidetrack here...
quote:
this recruiting class is going to finish in the top 10.
I would be highly impressed if this is true but doubtful. Soon see but CO and staff seem to be doing a good job so far.
This, and many other threads, question the value of stars, what they mean, do they mean anything.
I've yet to see one that questions class rankings. I have an issue with 247's pts calculation. Right now we sit at 13 with 0-5*, 9-4*, and 11-3* (20 total). Michigan at 12 has 1 less 4* and 2 less 3*, no 5* for them either.
So the points value the ratio of 3* to 4* more than having more players, or even more 4*. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Having 1 or more 4* than them should provide a slight edge.
In other words, that calculation weighs toward proportionality rather than the total "value" of the commits.
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