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re: MLB Offseason Thread: Hosmer to the Padres, Twins get a starter
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:14 pm to WestCoastAg
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:14 pm to WestCoastAg
This is going to be an interesting case when it comes up.
Does he get in because of reputation or do they look at numbers?
I'm not sure he has the numbers to get in.
Does he get in because of reputation or do they look at numbers?
I'm not sure he has the numbers to get in.
1
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:16 pm to JetsetNuggs
I found it interesting... Molina ranks 29th in JAWS behind Russell Martin and Victor Martinez...
LINK
LINK
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:18 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
It will come down to perception which may have gotten him in 10 years ago. Don't see that happening 5+ years down the road as voters start putting greater weight on the actual numbers
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:33 pm to WestCoastAg
Molina's case is very dependent on intangibles and team accomplishments. I don't think it's a coincidence that the (presumed) Cardinals fan ITT is incredibly offended by our opinions of Yadi. The weight of Yadi's intangibles and team accomplishments no doubt are fresher/more valid in his mind.
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 1:34 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:38 pm to DallasTiger45
I see Molina like a much less liked C version of Ozzie Smith, and Ozzie cruised in, although that was a different era of voting.
Both would be going in based on defensive reputation and "intangibles" because the offensive numbers aren't there, even for a C or SS.
Biggest difference is that Ozzie was pretty universally beloved, at least as best I can remember, I was pretty young back then.
If I had to bet on it right now, I'd bet on Yadi making it in eventually.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:43 pm to LSUBoo
So how do you see Omar Vizquel?
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:44 pm to LSUBoo
And ozzie had at least somewhat of a respectable hall of fame resume. Yadi just doesn't
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:57 pm to tduecen
quote:
So how do you see Omar Vizquel?
I'd vote for him... he'll be on the ballot for the first time this year, right?
He never made it to the 3,000 hit milestone, but still, he should be in.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 1:59 pm to LSUBoo
He is trending at about 30% while Andrew Jones and Scott Rolen are at 3% and 11% respectively. Both of them were considered the top of their position for awhile as well and both were more accomplished hitters.
It is actually odd the mindset of some voters, how they can ignore one aspect of a player for one particular player and then highlight the same aspect (defense in this case) for another.
It is actually odd the mindset of some voters, how they can ignore one aspect of a player for one particular player and then highlight the same aspect (defense in this case) for another.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:02 pm to tduecen
Well, does that mean that's how many voters plan on voting for them, or how many voters feel like those guys are HOF worthy?
There's a difference, because all these steroid guys that should have been in years ago are creating a backlog.
In my opinion... there are more than 10 guys that should be getting a vote.
There's a difference, because all these steroid guys that should have been in years ago are creating a backlog.
In my opinion... there are more than 10 guys that should be getting a vote.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:04 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
I see Molina like a much less liked C version of Ozzie Smith, and Ozzie cruised in, although that was a different era of voting.
Both would be going in based on defensive reputation and "intangibles" because the offensive numbers aren't there, even for a C or SS.
Biggest difference is that Ozzie was pretty universally beloved, at least as best I can remember, I was pretty young back then.
If I had to bet on it right now, I'd bet on Yadi making it in eventually.
I think Yadi will make it at some point...just don't think I would vote for him.
The HOF ballot nowadays is probably the most loaded it's ever been. I'm sure there will still be a backlog of worthy candidates when Yadi's 5 years pass. It will be interesting for sure.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:28 pm to tduecen
quote:
It is actually odd the mindset of some voters, how they can ignore one aspect of a player for one particular player and then highlight the same aspect (defense in this case) for another.
Because of one reason, he was one of the best, ever(defensively). It was not like he was just an above average defensive catcher, or just a pretty good one, because then Im with you, then I'd say you cant just be one sided.
Hes what, top 15 defensive catcher all time? top 50 overall best defensive player all time?
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:31 pm to LSUBoo
How many plan on voting for them, apparently Omar should receive about 30% which is great and usually ends up with the player in the Hall
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:43 pm to mizslu314
quote:
Because of one reason, he was one of the best, ever(defensively). It was not like he was just an above average defensive catcher, or just a pretty good one, because then Im with you, then I'd say you cant just be one sided. Hes what, top 15 defensive catcher all time? top 50 overall best defensive player all time?
It’s the baseball hall of fame not the defensive player hall of fame. Brad Ausmus and Charles Johnson were historically elite defensive catchers also and they will never sniff the hall of fame. Molina was much better offensively than those two especially at his peak, which is why he has a legitimate shot. But it’s going to be a battle for him to get in IMO
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:47 pm to tduecen
Andruw being a 3% is a fricking joke.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:49 pm to lsu31always
I agree. I think his career arc really hurts him, he straight dropped off a cliff. Because of that people forget how incredible he was at his peak
Also that his peak was for like 8 years
Also that his peak was for like 8 years
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:52 pm to mizslu314
quote:And???? Plenty of great defensive players that were average to below average offensively not in the hall of fame.
Because of one reason, he was one of the best, ever(defensively)
Jim Sundberg was a pretty damn good defensive catcher, probably better than Yadi and he was an average/below offensive threat for a brief period as well.
This post was edited on 1/18/18 at 2:57 pm
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:53 pm to tduecen
quote:
He is trending at about 30% while Andrew Jones and Scott Rolen are at 3% and 11% respectively. Both of them were considered the top of their position for awhile as well and both were more accomplished hitters.
Andruw is what, objectively one of the best 3 defensive CF in history? Had a number of great hitting years as well.
Rolen? At least top 5 defensively all time, and Id definitely go top 3, and he also had some great hitting years.
Neither will sniff the HOF, and neither should Molina.
Posted on 1/18/18 at 2:59 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:20-29..... 30 was when his averaged went from .262 range to .220 range.
Also that his peak was for like 8 years
Posted on 1/18/18 at 3:05 pm to tduecen
quote:
Jim Sundberg
True, in the sense that they are about the same defensively. But Yadi is better at just about every offensive category.
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