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Is the problem with the Harbaugh offense the same as the problem with the Les offense?
Posted on 10/24/17 at 8:22 pm
Posted on 10/24/17 at 8:22 pm
In other words, big OL, fullbacks and tight ends and cram it down their throats for 4 quarters which is good enough to win 8-9 games a year. But the games where you run into equal or better talent there's no push, resulting in a lot of 3rd & longs.
I remember when he was at Stanford with those 3 and 4 tight end formations. And not just in short yardage situations. Like 1st and 10 from the 50 and they're in 3 TE's. I wondered how far he could get with that approach. I'm not sure you can get enough of an edge physically anymore to get to the CFB playoff with that offense.
I remember when he was at Stanford with those 3 and 4 tight end formations. And not just in short yardage situations. Like 1st and 10 from the 50 and they're in 3 TE's. I wondered how far he could get with that approach. I'm not sure you can get enough of an edge physically anymore to get to the CFB playoff with that offense.
This post was edited on 10/24/17 at 9:43 pm
6
Posted on 10/24/17 at 8:25 pm to RidiculousHype
quote:
TE's. I wondered how far he could get with that approach.
Pretty far...
It helps to have a QB.
Michigan has no QB.
See Florida.
Posted on 10/24/17 at 8:27 pm to RidiculousHype
Did you see him at SF? I don't think that's really what he wants to run.
Hopefully he's recruiting the right talent in order to be more dynamic on offense in the future.
Hopefully he's recruiting the right talent in order to be more dynamic on offense in the future.
Posted on 10/24/17 at 8:30 pm to RidiculousHype
Yes, they're very similar. That's why I'm very interested to see if he makes the necessary changes, or will be stubborn like Les was. It ultimately cost Les his job.
Posted on 10/24/17 at 8:33 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
Similar style but not as predictable
They do need to make adjustments with the offense
They do need to make adjustments with the offense
Posted on 10/24/17 at 8:36 pm to RidiculousHype
quote:I think it's more of an issue of the QB. Speight wasn't a world beater, but they averaged 42 PPG with him as QB last season, but only scored 20 points against Indiana when he was out and O'Korn was QB.
the problem with the Les offense?
They were averaging 32.7 PPG in the first 3 games, although they had a couple defensive TDs with Speight. In the 4 games that O'Korn has been the primary QB, they are averaging 19.5 PPG, and only 17.8 if you exclude OT.
So 15 games with Speight over the last 2 Seasons, Michigan has averaged 40.1 PPG, but 5 games with O'Korn they've averaged 19.6 PPG.
Posted on 10/24/17 at 8:51 pm to buckeye_vol
In addition, by my quick calculations Michigan has averaged 430 yards of total offense with Speight as the primary QB and only 321 with O'Korn as the primary QB. The passing offense with Speight averaged 220 YPG but 153 YPG with O'Korn.
So with O'Korn at QB, they average 20.5 fewer points per game, 109 fewer total yards, with 67 fewer passing yards and about 42 fewer rushing yards.
So with O'Korn at QB, they average 20.5 fewer points per game, 109 fewer total yards, with 67 fewer passing yards and about 42 fewer rushing yards.
Posted on 10/24/17 at 8:56 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Pretty far...
He had a #1 overall pick at QB the only 10+ win season he had at Stanford. I wouldn't really call that sustainable.
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:01 pm to Jwb0581
quote:
He had a #1 overall pick at QB the only 10+ win season he had at Stanford. I wouldn't really call that sustainable.
I think some people forget how bad Stanford was before he got there. The fact that he built them into a national contender is a minor miracle. Shaw has done a hell of a job sustaining it, but Harbaugh built it.
The 2006 Stanford team was on par with what Kansas is right now.
This post was edited on 10/24/17 at 9:04 pm
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:25 pm to VADawg
So he "built" Stanford in only 4 years
But hes "still rebuilding" Michigan in year 3
ya, makes perfect sense...
But hes "still rebuilding" Michigan in year 3
ya, makes perfect sense...
This post was edited on 10/24/17 at 9:29 pm
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:28 pm to Jwb0581
quote:
He had a #1 overall pick at QB the only 10+ win season he had at Stanford
its pretty much just Harbaugh apologist Bingo at this point
1. "he has no QB"
2. "look what he did at Stanford"
we still need:
3. "academic standards are too high"
4. "just you wait and see"
5. "hes top 5 coach"
and we will round out the list
This post was edited on 10/24/17 at 9:30 pm
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:30 pm to VADawg
quote:Yeah. They were went 1-11 the year before Harbaugh then 4-8, 5-7, 8-5, and 12-1.
The 2006 Stanford team was on par with what Kansas is right now.
I think their Simple Rating System (MOV adjusted for SOS), really shows how impressive the improvement was.
Year SRS SRS Ranking
2006 -8.73 98th
2007 -1.10 66th (Harbaugh's first year)
2008 -0.04 65th
2009 10.88 20th (Luck's freshman year)
2010 21.80 1st (Harbaugh's last year)
2011 17.78 6th (Luck's last year)
So they were better with Harbaugh and Luck, and arguably the best team in the nation, than the following year with Luck and Shaw.
And there is a similar trend at Michigan.
Year SRS SRS Ranking
2014 1.82 61st
2015 16.34 6th (Harbaugh's first year)
2016 17.56 5th
2017 14.29 15th
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:32 pm to rocket31
The academics thing is a joke. Only autistic celticdog made that point. I'll let mgoblog explain the rest:
quote:
Nor is there a point in arguing with people who don't think Brady Hoke and his #37 and #20 2014-15 recruiting classes don't still have an impact on Michigan's performance. While assaulting previous regimes for failures has been somewhere between plausible and a holy quest, to do so after this start from Harbaugh...
In Harbaugh’s first season, Michigan doubled its win total from five to 10 and improved from 48th in S&P+ to fifth. The Wolverines won seven games by at least 21 points and lost to only three opponents (Utah, Michigan State, Ohio State) that combined to go 34-7. Against Utah, they lost because of a pick six. Against Michigan State, well, you remember that one. Not a bad debut.
In 2016, Michigan came within a spot of the Big Ten East title. If officials mark J.T. Barrett’s fourth-down conversion attempt slightly differently, the Wolverines go to the Big Ten title game and likely go to the College Football Playoff. As it stands, they merely backed up the previous season with another 10-3 record, another top-five S&P+ finish, and losses by a combined three points against Ohio State and Florida State teams that won 21 games. All this despite a late-season shoulder injury to quarterback Wilton Speight.
...given Harbaugh's track record is asinine. To do so after Michigan returned the fewest starters of any Power 5 team and lost their top quarterback, left tackle, and wide receiver to injury is brain dead. Yes, I thought things would be going better, but my preseason prediction didn't bake in injuries to Speight and Black; without those the chances that Michigan is headed towards 9-3 at worst are what, 90%? Have we already forgotten what a truly bad team looks like?
I get it if you're a rival and you're getting your yucks in. If you're a Michigan fan and your reaction isn't along the lines of "well, this is very disappointing but lets see what happens next year" I don't want to talk to you. Because what good would it do?
This post was edited on 10/24/17 at 9:33 pm
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:37 pm to RidiculousHype
Yes. Limited QB, limited creativity, forcing the run at all costs while relying heavily on an elite defense.
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:44 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
They were went 1-11 the year before Harbaugh then 4-8, 5-7, 8-5, and 12-1.
so he had one good (albeit great) year?
and this is considered "building" todays current Stanford program?
This post was edited on 10/24/17 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:47 pm to RidiculousHype
It’s all about the Qb. Get a good qb and you can beat anyone like that. When Les had good Qb play he won. Michigan doesn’t have a Qb this year
This post was edited on 10/24/17 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:48 pm to Bunk Moreland
quote:
If you're a Michigan fan and your reaction isn't along the lines of "well, this is very disappointing but lets see what happens next year" I don't want to talk to you.
of course, thats clearly the rational approach. anything more than that is insanity...but im not quite seeing the optimism for next year?
its not like the next Luck is sitting on the bench waiting to take over, there are also some key linemen being lost, and the schedule appears to be much more difficult.
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:48 pm to rocket31
quote:As a point or reference, since you're an ND fan and Kelly is a great coach, in Kelly's 8 years as ND, he's had an average SRS of 12.52.
its pretty much just Harbaugh apologist Bingo at this point
In Harbaugh's 4 years at Stanford, he had an average SRS of 7.89 and in his 3 years at UM he's an average SRS of 16.06, and the combined 7 years he's had an average SRS of 11.39.
In addition, Stanford's SRS improved by 7.63 in Harbaugh's first year and Michigan's improved by 14.52 in year 1, while ND's improved by 3.86 with Kelly compared to Weis's last season.
Posted on 10/24/17 at 9:50 pm to buckeye_vol
honeslty man, im not sure why youre looking at SRS, its a pretty elementary evaluation of team strength
your posts would be much more valuable if they were S&P
also Harbaugh makes 2x as much as BK so im not really understanding the comparison. if anything, its proving that JH is vastly overpaid
your posts would be much more valuable if they were S&P
also Harbaugh makes 2x as much as BK so im not really understanding the comparison. if anything, its proving that JH is vastly overpaid
This post was edited on 10/24/17 at 9:52 pm
Posted on 10/24/17 at 10:01 pm to rocket31
quote:
also Harbaugh makes 2x as much as BK so im not really understanding the comparison. if anything, its proving that JH is vastly overpaid
What are you the "overpaid police?"
Who cares? Michigan can afford it.
This obsession with salary and then by extrapolation acting like Harbaugh is a crappy coach or has done a crappy job is ludicrous.
Since when did cost-to-value ratio become so important with the average fan...is this now some new Sabremetric?
Someone is either a good coach or a bad coach...regardless of what they make.
And if you think Harbaugh is a bad coach, you're an insane person.
This post was edited on 10/24/17 at 10:02 pm
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