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Message
Food for thought on all the "why hate Ingram" threads
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:18 am
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:18 am
WWL has recently ran a couple of stories asking why fans do not like Ingram or have never warmed up to Ingram.
Another one asked if he was an average back or a special back.....
We have gone through numerous reasons before....
1) For me it will always start with the fact that he was not worth a 1st round pick....I will always believe he was a reach.
2) Saints have gotten production from lower drafted backs.
3) Poor vision and runs a little upright for me.
But 4 is the biggest one..
4) Lack of big play or breakaway potential. Maybe it is my age, but when I think of the great backs I see then busting through the line and taking it the distance...Dickerson, Dorsett, Smith, Sanders...ability to break off a long run at any time...I never get that feeling from Ingram.
These are the fact:
Ingram's first 4 seasons----no runs longer than 35 yards.
2015---(1) 70 yard run, (2) runs over 40+ yards, (5) runs over 20+ yards
2016---(1) 75 yard run, (2) runs over 40+ yards, (4) runs over 20+ yards
Note that the (5) runs over 20 yards includes those (2) over 40+ and the 40+ includes the (1) 75 yard run.
Now look at Elliott last year for Dallas.
1st year---Long 60 yard run, (3) runs over 40+, but (14) runs over 20+ yards in one season....Ingram for his whole 6 years has 23 runs over 20+ yards.
Another one asked if he was an average back or a special back.....
We have gone through numerous reasons before....
1) For me it will always start with the fact that he was not worth a 1st round pick....I will always believe he was a reach.
2) Saints have gotten production from lower drafted backs.
3) Poor vision and runs a little upright for me.
But 4 is the biggest one..
4) Lack of big play or breakaway potential. Maybe it is my age, but when I think of the great backs I see then busting through the line and taking it the distance...Dickerson, Dorsett, Smith, Sanders...ability to break off a long run at any time...I never get that feeling from Ingram.
These are the fact:
Ingram's first 4 seasons----no runs longer than 35 yards.
2015---(1) 70 yard run, (2) runs over 40+ yards, (5) runs over 20+ yards
2016---(1) 75 yard run, (2) runs over 40+ yards, (4) runs over 20+ yards
Note that the (5) runs over 20 yards includes those (2) over 40+ and the 40+ includes the (1) 75 yard run.
Now look at Elliott last year for Dallas.
1st year---Long 60 yard run, (3) runs over 40+, but (14) runs over 20+ yards in one season....Ingram for his whole 6 years has 23 runs over 20+ yards.
17
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:23 am to tigerterrace
Answer: He went to Alabama and was seen cheering on his team at the Super Dome when they embarrassed LSU.
That's literally it
That's literally it
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:32 am to tigerterrace
quote:
1) For me it will always start with the fact that he was not worth a 1st round pick....I will always believe he was a reach.
2) Saints have gotten production from lower drafted backs.
3) Poor vision and runs a little upright for me.
I agree with all of this...
quote:
4) Lack of big play or breakaway potential. Maybe it is my age, but when I think of the great backs I see then busting through the line and taking it the distance...Dickerson, Dorsett, Smith, Sanders...ability to break off a long run at any time...I never get that feeling from Ingram.
Actually, Ingram has been very good at this. This is a poor argument.
I can't stand the consistent runs which he gets 2-3 yards less than he should. For his first two years, his vision was terrible, but it has improved. He'll still miss holes more than he should. But, his upright running style for a guy his stature is very disappointing. He shouldn't get blown up as much as he does.
Ingram is fine and we aren't paying him a ton. But, if I can get an asset by trading him, especially with Peterson now on board, I'm doing it in a heartbeat.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:34 am to tigerterrace
quote:
WWL has recently ran a couple of stories asking why fans do not like Ingram or have never warmed up to Ingram.
bama, they should not try to deny it. its all about bama.
quote:
Another one asked if he was an average back or a special back.....
he's above average at all 3 phases. not average. not special. not bad.
quote:
1) For me it will always start with the fact that he was not worth a 1st round pick....I will always believe he was a reach.
not his fault
quote:
2) Saints have gotten production from lower drafted backs.
look at the big picture in 2010 and see how injured we were.
quote:
3) Poor vision and runs a little upright for me.
he's definitely improved on this, he doesn't have le'veon bell vision, but he has pretty solid vision.
quote:
But 4 is the biggest one..
4) Lack of big play or breakaway potential. Maybe it is my age, but when I think of the great backs I see then busting through the line and taking it the distance...Dickerson, Dorsett, Smith, Sanders...ability to break off a long run at any time...I never get that feeling from Ingram.
that's more on blocking than a player. how rare it was for even ivory, robinson, or PT to take it to the house.
Ivory:
2011 35 yards
2012 56 yards
Robinson:
2013 25 yards
2014 62 yards
2015 14 yards
Thomas:
2011 33 yards
2012 48 yards
2013 18 yards
2014 27 yards
Ingram:
2011 35 yards
2012 31 yards
2013 34 yards
2014 31 yards
2015 70 yards
2016 75 yards
Hightower:
2015 26 yards
2016 30 yards
2011: Ingram, Ivory > Thomas
2012: Ivory > PT > Ingram
2013: Ingram > Robinson > Thomas
2014: Robinson > Ingram > Thomas
2015: Ingram > Hightower > Robinson
2016: Ingram > Hightower
quote:
Now look at Elliott last year for Dallas.
elite OL
Go look at this stat: yards before initial contact. Chicago, Dallas, and Atlanta were top 5 teams. New Orleans was not close.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:36 am to tigerterrace
quote:
Lack of big play or breakaway potential
This...i don't care what college he went to just about every long run he's broken open on hes been caught from behind.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:37 am to tigerterrace
I completely understood the hate MI threads the first 2 1/2 years.
I don't understand them since then.
3rd in the NFL at 5.1 ypc is nothing to hate on. At all.
I don't understand them since then.
3rd in the NFL at 5.1 ypc is nothing to hate on. At all.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:37 am to moneyg
quote:
But, if I can get an asset by trading him, especially with Peterson now on board, I'm doing it in a heartbeat.
AD is a 32 year old RB who's going to be on the team for 1 to maybe 2 years. He might be washed up for all anyone knows and he's had injury troubles before as well. What's the likelyhood he stays healthy for the whole season while being the feature back?
Kamara is a rookie RB who never had more than 18 carries in a single game in college.
The rest of the RBs have been special team guys while Cadet is Cadet.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:38 am to LSUZombie
quote:
Answer: He went to Alabama and was seen cheering on his team at the Super Dome when they embarrassed LSU.
That's literally it
No actually prior to 2016 he had been largely a disappointment, and a failed reach by trading back into the 1st round to pick up. Now I know where he was drafted has nothing to do with him, but it is what it is.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 10:53 am
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:47 am to Snipe
quote:
No actually prior to 2016 he had been largely a disappointment, and a failed reach but trading back into the 1st round to pick up. Now I know where he was drafted has nothing to do with him, but it is what it is.
its both him trying to do too much and the playcalling.
2013 season: soundFX eagles vs saints playoff game
- ingram goes in
- linebacker screams: ingram is in, watch the run watch the run.
- its a run.
that defines his first 3 years.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:55 am to tigerterrace
The backs fans thought were better are either on their 3rd team by now or are out of the league.
The first round pick is somewhat of a legit gripe. But he is on the verge of starting to live up to the hype and they still bash him.
The first round pick is somewhat of a legit gripe. But he is on the verge of starting to live up to the hype and they still bash him.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:55 am to LSUZombie
You forgot about all the fumbles.
How do we have a running back that can't hang on to the damn ball.
Need to get Tim McGraw on his arse with the duckttape
How do we have a running back that can't hang on to the damn ball.
Need to get Tim McGraw on his arse with the duckttape
Posted on 5/11/17 at 10:59 am to BattinRouge11
5 fumbles in 6 years is really a problem?
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:02 am to tigerterrace
He's meh af
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:04 am to BattinRouge11
2016: 2 fumbles, lost both
2015: 2 fumbles, lost 1
2014: 3 fumbles, lost 1
2013: 0
2012: 0
2011: 1 fumble, lost 1
so he's lost 5 fumbles in 6 seasons
It's almost like some of y'all don't even watch football and just believe the clown bs that gets spouted on here
2015: 2 fumbles, lost 1
2014: 3 fumbles, lost 1
2013: 0
2012: 0
2011: 1 fumble, lost 1
so he's lost 5 fumbles in 6 seasons
It's almost like some of y'all don't even watch football and just believe the clown bs that gets spouted on here
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:06 am to BattinRouge11
quote:
You forgot about all the fumbles.
quote:
BattinRouge11
Do you even watch Saints' games?
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:07 am to bamabenny
quote:
2016: 2 fumbles, lost both
2015: 2 fumbles, lost 1
2014: 3 fumbles, lost 1
Well, he aint trending the right way ...
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:08 am to bamabenny
For comparison the guy we just signed has 34 career fumbles. Lynch has 19 and i think mccoy has 16.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:10 am to Sauce Castieaux
Demarco Murray has 13 and he's been innthe league as long as Mark gas
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:12 am to Sauce Castieaux
quote:
Sauce Castieaux
You're wasting your time.
People have been pointing out how much lower Ingram's fumble rate compared to other RBs is for a while now and people like the guy above just completely ignore them because it doesn't fit their narrative.
I applaud your efforts though.
Posted on 5/11/17 at 11:12 am to BattinRouge11
quote:
You forgot about all the fumbles.
His fumble rates have been 0.98%, 0.60%, 0.44%, 0.0%, and 0.0% for the past five seasons. Those numbers are low for a starting runningback.
He wore crimson and cheered on Alabama when they beat LSU, that is the problem. To try and make points while others in agreeance say yep is asinine. He is a top 10 to 5 RB in this league and if he went to anywhere but Bama his jersey sales would be right behind Brees.
This post was edited on 5/11/17 at 11:14 am
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