re: Timeline: Stunning details in Penn State fraternity pledge death (Update: charges dropped)

lol what?

Why do you even keep replying to me? I've told you to frick off like three times.

Mmmk

lol Darth, I see you my man. Keep it up!

I'd be fairly certain he would be alive today had proper medical treatment been sought immediately. Do recall there were a couple of instances after the stair fall of some guys pouncing on him, etc. hours later.
The fact that he had internal bleeding that went unnoticed was, to me, the biggest issue here in the ultimate cause of his death that weekend.

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that's really shitty but this could happen at most fraternity houses across the country. Most drunk 20 year olds aren't going to immediately call for an ambulance in that situation. Sucks but sounds sorta like a freak injury deal to me.

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Yea it's an absolutely horrible situation, but while reading that I kept wondering how possible it would have been for something like that to happen in my fraternity.

We did the drink ritual during bid night as pledges when you don't know a single soul and no one really has your back (probably the most dangerous night looking back on it). We also had numerous parties where people fell and suffered injuries. Sometimes we'd take them to the hospital or something they'd just passout and realize they had a dislocated shoulder or black eye the next day.

Group think situations are incredibly real and have been studied ad nausea by a million psychologists. Add in that it was a bunch of 20 year old males who think they're invincible and alcohol was involved?

Clearly major mistakes were made, but it's more a terribly sad situation than some evil criminal situation IMO.

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Clearly major mistakes were made, but it's more a terribly sad situation than some evil criminal situation IMO.

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this. Obviously this involved a bunch of young DRUNK idiots who cant make rational decisions. It's weird seeing all the people in this thread wanting them to rot in jail and go to "rape prison." Nobody in that frat wanted this kid to die. If they did, well then they should go to "rape prison."

I was never in a frat, but went to many frat parties back in the day, and I always thought these type of environments were dangerous. Saw people doing copious amount of drugs and drinking like there was no tomorrow. I am legit surprised this type of thing doesnt happen more often. And let me make it clear that I don't condone this type of behavior. These kids should be punished, but serious jail time is a stupid idea.

The older frat brothers are obviously more to blame than the pledges who were all probably piss drunk out of their minds. Senior frat brothers who can somewhat handle their alcohol are the ones who should be in trouble for not looking over the crap they started.

I've read through most of the thread, these are my thoughts on it.

I can understand not calling the ambulance the night of, he's drunk, fell down the stairs, he's so drunk that he didn't even really notice it and couldn't get up. shite like that happens, hell, I've been blackout before, 99% of the people on here have. Like I said, shite happens and they didn't know the severity of the situation.

What I don't really understand is, where in the frick were the brothers from 4AM-10AM? They should've had at the very least, two people down there watching him.

I've been absolutely so drunk in the night that I had to be carried out of the bar, but I was always responsive 6-12 hours later. These fricking assholes have never seen a drunk person before? What, was this the first function that they've had alcohol at in their fraternity?

Then, when the two guys do find him at 10AM it takes them almost another hour until they decide, "yeah, might be a good idea to call an ambulance."

The guys that saw him from 5AM-7AM didn't think that he might need medical attention?

Even the guy at 11:51pm who was apparently calling for them to seek help and was asked to leave, he should've called anyway once he left.

This boils down to extreme incompetence, somebody needs to be held responsible and accountable for this. Involuntary manslaughter is what they should be charged with.

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Overview of Pennsylvania Involuntary Manslaughter Laws

Involuntary manslaughter, unlike other homicide charges set by Pennsylvania law, does not require an intent to kill. Rather than rely on the defendant's intent, the charge of involuntary manslaughter penalizes unintentional killings. By pursuing involuntary manslaughter, the state seeks to prevent and punish activities that happen with disregard for human life.

To prove involuntary manslaughter, a prosecutor must show that the defendant caused the victim's death by reckless or grossly negligent conduct while engaging a lawful or unlawful activity. A lawful act such as driving a car may be the basis for involuntary manslaughter if the defendant drove recklessly. The prosecutor must show a causal link between the defendant's reckless or negligent conduct and the victim's death. If the chain of events leading to the homicide does not trace back directly or substantially to the defendant, the state may have difficult time with proving involuntary manslaughter.

A prosecutor can establish gross negligence or recklessness by comparing the defendant's actions with an established standard of care that a reasonable person would follow. The prosecutor might also look at whether the defendant purposefully ignored a known danger or continued an activity even when significant risks became obvious.

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11:51 p.m.: A brother is shown on tape examining Piazza and making animated gestures. He later tells the grand jury he saw a bruise on Piazza's chest and that he was thrashing and making weird movements. He stressed Piazza needed medical care, but another member shoved him into a wall and told him to leave. The brother confronts the chapter's vice president, who also dismisses his concerns.

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This is the most damning part right here.

Eta: I'm a fan of fraternities, wasn't in one but I have two brothers that were and a whole lot of people I consider very close friends were. I went to many fraternity events because of those friends. The guys in those this fraternity here weren't acting in a "brotherly" way towards this poor sob. Nobody should have to go through what he went through.

Same feeling, got sick to my stomach. Reading of him holding his sides tight. Poor guy was probably in horrible pain, evidenced by him trying to leave over and over again but couldn't. They guys need to be charged. Period.

Was anyone on here around for the Ben Wynn death at LSU? I know that was a much different situation, just curious.