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re: Jeff Ireland deserves a raise, and here's why:

Posted on 5/4/17 at 10:34 am to
Posted by mm2316
New Orleans Pelicans Fan
Member since Aug 2010
6942 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 10:34 am to
I know there's more to the story to tell than missed tackles (or lack thereof), but since we're discussing PFF and Von Bell:

quote:

Pro Football Focus?Verified account @PFF Apr 14 More Vonn Bell is one of just two safeties with >200 run defense snaps to not miss a single tackle in the run game last season.
Posted by oncealurker
Baton Rouge
Member since Oct 2013
5076 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 10:52 am to
Posted by GynoSandberg
Member since Jan 2006
72325 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 11:27 am to
Bell was also terrible in coverage

quote:

he allowed five touchdowns on 30 receptions (120.8 passer rating to opposing quarterbacks).



Rankins was too light in the seat to stop the run, Bell couldnt cover. The good thing is, they at least got half of their duties solved - Rankins can penetrate, Bell can tackle.

Posted by tubucoco
las vegas, nevada
Member since Oct 2007
32994 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 12:30 pm to
quote:

I also would have gone with one of the QBs over Muhammed. Chad Kelly or Brad Kaaya would have been a more rewarding pick in my opinion but another damn fine draft altogether.
Only other QB I would have taken is or was Nathan Peterman. I think this kid is capable of turning into another Drew Brees. He is smart and intelligent like Brees, he caught onto Canada's system right away and revived his career at Pitt putting up some gaudy numbers in having the nation's best offense. He has average arm strength like Brees, but as I said he is smart and can catch on to a system right away and he's bigger than Brees at 6'2". I was hoping that he would continue to drop all the way to the 6th round, but it didn't happen. But Muhammed is a damn good pick because this kid is explosive. If he could have kept clean throughout school he would have been a 1st round pick easily, his talent is undeniable. The Saints will put him in subpackages as a situational pass rusher to use his explosive ability to get to the QB until he develops as an every down football player.
This post was edited on 5/4/17 at 1:28 pm
Posted by King George
Member since Dec 2013
5473 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 1:05 pm to
quote:

Lattimore will be an all pro corner for us. Enough said. Moving on...

We got a starter at RT and the best lineman in the draft at 32. Again, not much more needs to be said there.

Marcus Williams will start for us at FS. Now whether he's going to be good or not, time will on this kid, but he will get every chance to start and is the best deep ball safety we have. So that's 3 starters.

Kamara: Canal Street Chronicles just did an exceptional piece on this kid. Top 5 running back in the nation (Saints got 4 of the top 75 recruits from the 2013 class in the draft) coming out high school. What's lost about him is size-speed combo. He's 210+ and runs 4.40ish (ran a 4.5 at the combine but ask his coaches and they'll admit he's faster). He has the size and talent to be our future starter. If he ends up being a Thomas Jones type, chalk it up as another steal.

Anzalone: I'll post what I shared earlier because I think it says a lot about this pick: He was a 5 star recruit coming out high school and one of the top linebackers in the country, up there with...Reuben Foster. So you know the kid has rare physical gifts. He has the ability to a starting linebacker in this league. It's more a matter of health with him. If his injury days are behind him, we got a steal.

Al-Quadin Muhammad: another big time recruit. Top 5 defensive end in the nation in the 2013 class. So you know he has talent. He fell far in the draft because of the off the field concerns (kicked off UM's team). But this guy is another very raw and gifted athlete. He's got round 2-3 talent but we got him much later. If he puts it all together, we have another guy that can play in this league. He's the biggest question mark of all of these guys, but that's why he got drafted where he did. Even if only ends up as a situational rusher for the Saints, it's still a great pick for a player with his talent level.

They should just go ahead and give the Saints the Lombardi now. Based on all of this there's no point in playing any games.
Posted by MandevilleLSUTiger
Baton Rouge
Member since Sep 2005
6881 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 1:22 pm to
quote:

Anzalone: I'll post what I shared earlier because I think it says a lot about this pick: He was a 5 star recruit coming out high school and one of the top linebackers in the country, up there with...Reuben Foster. So you know the kid has rare physical gifts. He has the ability to a starting linebacker in this league. It's more a matter of health with him. If his injury days are behind him, we got a steal.

Al-Quadin Muhammad: another big time recruit. Top 5 defensive end in the nation in the 2013 class. So you know he has talent. He fell far in the draft because of the off the field concerns (kicked off UM's team). But this guy is another very raw and gifted athlete. He's got round 2-3 talent but we got him much later. If he puts it all together, we have another guy that can play in this league. He's the biggest question mark of all of these guys, but that's why he got drafted where he did. Even if only ends up as a situational rusher for the Saints, it's still a great pick for a player with his talent level.


Ronald Powell was the #1 overall recruit coming out of high school. Injured at Florida. So far he's a practice squad player. Hopefully Anzalone works out differently.
Posted by bonethug0108
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
12690 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 1:31 pm to
quote:

To think that you have more resources or knowledge then the guys that work at PFF is laughable.


Not in general, but when it comes to the Saints 100% absolutely yes I trust what I see week in week out year after year then what these guys (who isn't even the same guy each week) see.

I was a very early memeber on the Shanle is a vanilla lb club. I was one of Ellis' harshest critics when others were saying he's fine. From the moment I saw Galette play for us I knew he was going to be a special player (and still hate that the coaches took to long to play him). I was THE founding member of the cut Cadet fan club (when you were thinking he would replace Sproles). I was ragging Lofton for his play long before most because despite the stats I saw they came 5-10 yards downfield and almost none behind the line.

I could go on and on but I watch our players very closely and know their strengths and weaknesses. I was one of the very few pounding for Olinemen back in 2013 when I saw he was getting happy feet and running for his life at times but nearly everyone said just take a fourth round tackle or guard and we'll be fine as if it was that easy (we did luck into Armstead that year though in the third). We eventually got that first round lineman and we just picked another.

And yes I was wrong a few times like Colston with the injuries slowing him down too much (though he still was making tough catches; guy is a warrior). But when it comes to this time I'm right way more than wrong with the player eval (the results are a different story).

quote:

NFL teams use their service


A couple of teams. Many teams think they are a complete joke. Ryan and Payton have called them out on a few occasions.

But like I said I'm not asking or expecting you to trust my opinion. But I m going to give it and if I disagree with you I will say so.
Posted by bonethug0108
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
12690 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

he allowed five touchdowns on 30 receptions (120.8 passer rating to opposing quarterbacks).


If that's pff here's my issue with that. While they are pretty good grading the run game because it's more straightforward, they can be downright terrible grading the passing game because for the most part they don't know the coverage and are guessing (and sometimes VERY badly).

I believe it was Vaccaro a couple of years ago, he made a great play to try to get to a WR the passed busted coverage by two other players. He came from the other side of the field but was just a couple of feet short getting there.

Pff put that on Vaccaro because he was "in coverage", aka the closest to the receiver, when the ball was caught. And they make that same mistake over and over.

And that's not to say he was good in coverage. He made mistake, especially early on. But he made progress and was decent by the end of the year.
This post was edited on 5/4/17 at 1:46 pm
Posted by LooseCannon22282
Mobile
Member since May 2008
33989 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 1:41 pm to
quote:

You don't have to, but I trust my opinion a lot more than a bunch of guys who are just really us but decided to get paid for it.


I'd like to get paid by them and have their job honestly.

I was a huge skeptic at first but I've used their research to my own advantage. I've used it in building lineups in daily fantasy sports. Now.. do I come away a big winner every week? Well no obviously not. If it were that easy than everybody would play and they would make a lot more money off of people with way more subscribers.

fact is.. I hate it when they shite on one of the Saints players with their analysis even if I think their grading system can be flawed.

but i get fired up when they rank one of our guys high up too. They were huge Cam Jordan fans last year and they gave him way more props than any other national media/blowhard analyst would have.


quote:

And Bell is more understandable to me because Allen is asking these guys to do a lot. He's a rookie starting most games and still not blowing that much coverage. It needs work but he showed improvement through the year and you can tell it started clicking. His run game work was very good.


it seemed like Bell would be in decent position at times but maybe just a few steps off. I think it could be from hesitating (thinking too much). In pass coverage anyway.


quote:

Rankins was billed as an interior rusher.


if he and Fairley can stay healthy for 16 games this year and then some.. the Saints should be in way better shape than they have in years as far as getting a push up the middle.






Posted by NOFOX
New Orleans
Member since Jan 2014
9975 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

You don't have to, but I trust my opinion a lot more than a bunch of guys who are just really us but decided to get paid for it.


Yeah, those guys whose work the Giants and other NFL teams use and in whom Chris Collinsworth invested millions ain't got nothing on bonethug0108 and the TD SR crew. We could totally decide to get millions for our evaluations if we wanted.
This post was edited on 5/4/17 at 1:45 pm
Posted by bonethug0108
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
12690 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 1:48 pm to
I should have added when it comes to the Saints at the end of that. I don't watch these other teams unless we are playing them or it's the playoffs, or every now and then if one of our division opponents is playing in the other time slot.
Posted by Louisianabound88
BR
Member since Dec 2016
3191 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 2:15 pm to
You forgot to mention Trey Hendrickson, the guy I'm most anxious to see and the guy the team needs the most out of all the draft picks
Posted by Mr. Hangover
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2003
34629 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 2:51 pm to
quote:

Anzalone


Who?
Posted by Mr. Hangover
New Orleans
Member since Sep 2003
34629 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 2:52 pm to
quote:

I'm not sure everybody realizes that Anzalone may start right away


Also, if this is true how come I never heard him mentioned once predraft?

serious question
Posted by Lester Earl
3rd Ward
Member since Nov 2003
280931 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 2:56 pm to
quote:

they can be downright terrible grading the passing game because for the most part they don't know the coverage and are guessing (and sometimes VERY badly


How do you know they are bad and guess coverages?

You realize the positioning of the DB and their movement after the snap gives away the coverage without having to guess, right?
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
30490 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 3:02 pm to
Remember when they heavily dinged Keenan Lewis for coverage vs green bay (iirc Randall Cobb took it to the house) when it was someone else's fault and he almost made an exceptional play
Posted by bonethug0108
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
12690 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 3:04 pm to
But they don't apparently. At least one person grading definitely does not.

The guy that started was pretty good at it and was consistent. That's why it started to take off. Then iirc he brought in another who I thought was still decent at it but not nearly as good or as consistent. Then more people were brought in and it's a jumbled fricking mess now.

That's why I went from really being able to get behind the numbers to now calling it a measuring stick at best. Some of those people are downright fricking awful at it.

Oh and the game I was talking about with Vaccaro, which I believe was in 2014, they went back and corrected after Ryan trashed them on it. The guy that started the site knew that person grading fricked it up.

How many other plays are being fricked up? The creator can't look over everyone.
This post was edited on 5/4/17 at 3:07 pm
Posted by bonethug0108
Avondale
Member since Mar 2013
12690 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 3:09 pm to
frick that's who it was htran. I was thinking Vaccaro for some reason (maybe he was another he bitched them out over).

Lewis almost made a miracle play and yet because he was closest he got hit with the td given up and a heavily negative grade for it.

From that day on I realized how much of a fricking shell of it's former self it had become.

Pff is a fricking joke when it comes to the grades. The only thing they are good for is their signature stats.
Posted by Hester Carries
Member since Sep 2012
22964 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 3:17 pm to
quote:

I also would have gone with one of the QBs over Muhammed. Chad Kelly or Brad Kaaya would have been a more rewarding pick in my opinion but another damn fine draft altogether.



If you are drafting a QB in the 6th round you are essentially just knowingly throwing away a draft pick.

Posted by breauxmosexual
New Orleans, LA
Member since Aug 2016
2526 posts
Posted on 5/4/17 at 3:44 pm to
Yes Kamara doesn't have gamechanging speed. He's actually more of an every down back than ppl give him credit for, but with a great ability to catch the ball out of the backfield and run precise routes. He's not Sproles, Bush, or McCaffrey. He's somewhere between Pierre Thomas and Darren Sproles, with the potential to be better than both. One thing you really notice about Kamara watching his highlights, is that he is a tackle breaking machine. Guys literally bounce off of him. He's a lot bigger than he looks on TV
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