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re: Why Did The Western Die as a Genre?
Posted on 4/2/17 at 1:26 am to AbuTheMonkey
Posted on 4/2/17 at 1:26 am to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
Django Unchained
This board is the only place I've ever seen anyone consider this to be a western. It's primarily set on a plantation in the south and is most concerned with slavery. It's not a western.
0
Posted on 4/2/17 at 8:06 am to Jack Ruby
Pretty sure they explain this in simple terms in toy story 2.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 8:29 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
But space movies and flying superhumans and fantasy cartoon characters are relatable?
I've spent a hell of a lot more time reading comic books and studying space than I've spent in rural America.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 8:30 am to Jack Ruby
We're just in a different era....the sorry comic/remake era.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 8:46 am to Kafka
quote:
I've read that as difficult as it is to sell a western in the US, it's even harder overseas -- which is now where around 70% of studio revenue comes from (in the days of Gone With The Wind that % was reversed). Foreigners apparently see the western as glorifying American imperialism
Not in Europe. Europeans eat our westerns up.
It's the Chinese and Indians who don't care for it. You know - 3 Billion people.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 9:13 am to Kafka
quote:
Foreigners apparently see the western as glorifying American imperialism
i think it's just more glorifying America
China has some very Western-esque historical pieces, but with the Chinese glorification
there just aren't that many countries in the world that have an idea of what the kind of open frontier the West was to the US, due to simply geography. you have to have a HUGE country to have the same appreciation for the basic expanse of land. China can. Russia can (but much of it is inhospitable)
I mean here is Montana compared to Europe
LINK
South America is too dense with jungle. same with SE Asia
some areas in Africa probably could have something similar but the various histories of the countries don't really have that same appeal. their populations are more people-centric and they frame all conflicts as group vs. group. that's why so many of their actual conflicts have so much genocide
Posted on 4/2/17 at 9:15 am to AshLSU
quote:
Native Americans were never villains in history.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 9:18 am to randomways
quote:
He's just being a revisionist ninny. Westerns were no more about character development than they were about exciting gun fights, horseback pursuit, and the occasional rodeo tricks.
when the 70s came around and Hollywood applied the anti-hero to Westerns, you got a lot more character development. prior to this period, it was mostly simple white/black hat stories
i love Westerns from the anti-hero era and don't really like many from the halcyon era
Posted on 4/2/17 at 10:08 am to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
I think Hollywood mostly just focusing on the 12-16 year old demographic killed the Western.
Yup.
Glad you mentioned Open Range. If you have not seen it give it a go.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 12:30 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Well that's just not true. They might not be "villains" (whatever that means) but they attacked homesteaders and stole their shite. You can call it defense of territory I guess. I guess the debate becomes - can people ever migrate if they have might - or is that always wrong? So we all stay in the same place in perpetuity. That's not history as I know it. People move and move with weapons to secure said movement.
So what ever they did, they did defending there own homelands. You would do the same.
Just because someone has a higher technology doesn't make their actions right. What the Europeans did wasn't migrating, it was stealing. If you think what they did was right, then you can't have a problem with groups like ISIS then because all they are doing is trying to spread their ways through force. They want to take over places through force just like the Europeans did in America.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 12:38 pm to Marciano1
quote:
We're just in a different era....the sorry comic/remake era.
The worst comic book movie is still better than the best western.
Those old stupid westerns all sucked arse. They all passed the same stupid rock 100 times, the acting was so fricking robotic that it was comical, and none of them were based on any form of truth. Cowboys were not gun carrying warriors. They were fricking hired hands on farms who knew little more than how to herd cattle.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 1:07 pm to Jack Ruby
It hasn't, just different
Posted on 4/2/17 at 1:39 pm to Jack Ruby
Ran outta Indians
Posted on 4/2/17 at 1:50 pm to Freauxzen
My first western was City Slickers. 
This post was edited on 4/2/17 at 1:50 pm
Posted on 4/2/17 at 2:26 pm to AshLSU
quote:
The worst comic book movie is still better than the best western.
Those old stupid westerns all sucked arse. They all passed the same stupid rock 100 times, the acting was so fricking robotic that it was comical, and none of them were based on any form of truth.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 2:50 pm to AshLSU
quote:
So what ever they did, they did defending there own homelands. You would do the same.
Just because someone has a higher technology doesn't make their actions right. What the Europeans did wasn't migrating, it was stealing. If you think what they did was right, then you can't have a problem with groups like ISIS then because all they are doing is trying to spread their ways through force. They want to take over places through force just like the Europeans did in America.
Eh, not too get all that political about this, but many of the native tribes weren't exactly well-entrenched in their regions when European explorers got there, either, especially as one moved further West. The Comanche didn't seize Comancheria until after the arrival of the Spanish in the Southwest and introduction of the horse, for instance. Same thing for many of the Sioux and a whole heck of a lot of the tribes all across the country. Doesn't excuse what Europeans did, but "conquering the previous generation's conquerors" is more accurate than "stealing".
This post was edited on 4/2/17 at 2:54 pm
Posted on 4/2/17 at 3:06 pm to Kafka
quote:
3. Politics. Liberal sentimentality about Indians has made it nearly impossible to portray them as villains. In a more general sense, SJW Political Correctness attacks any celebration of American history. The western celebrates the taming and settling of a savage land -- er, I mean glorifies Eurocentric genocide against indigenous peoples and rape of the environment. If for some reason you still like westerns even though they're clearly only for jingoistic racists, check out my TV western thread
You must have hated The Outlaw Josey Wales.
Posted on 4/2/17 at 3:08 pm to Jack Ruby
I just thought it was the sci fi genre and space exploration that knocked westerns off the pedestal. Toy story kinda gives you an idea of what I mean. Sherrif Woody wasn't the in thing when Buzz Lightyear came around
Posted on 4/2/17 at 3:09 pm to AbuTheMonkey
I'm surprised there is not discussion on Dances With Wolves in this thread.While not about Cowboys it surely had a number of Indians. lol
Posted on 4/2/17 at 3:13 pm to Jack Ruby
You obviously didn't see Cowboys and Aliens. It was a huge hit.
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