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re: IYO, who had the greatest peak in sports history?
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:06 am to JustLivinTheDream
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:06 am to JustLivinTheDream
The question really should be 'other than Gretzky'-- its that dominant a performance.
People look at his numbers and think 'Gee, that's a lot of points'-- and mentally they're comparing him to the peak scoring era of the NHL.
His 205, 208, and 215 consecutive seasons weren't just 'very good'- a third of the league's *teams* scored under 300 goals in the first year; the second, 9 of the 20 other teams were under 300 team goals; the last year, 7 of the 20 other teams were at 300 team goals or less, and Gretzky was within 51 points of having more points than the entire Red Wings franchise had goals in a season.
Its hard to translate that to other sports, but there's some ways to look at it that are interesting -- to put that in baseball terms, the worst scoring team in MLB history scored 372 runs-- for a single baseball player to account for a similar 80% level of runs created, they'd need to account for 298 runs.
While Bill James' formula for runs created is imperfect, Ruth's 1921 season total of 241 is the baseball record.
The best season by the best baseball player, compared to the worst scoring team in the history of baseball-- and it still doesn't compare to what Gretzky did to normal levels of NHL performance.
People look at his numbers and think 'Gee, that's a lot of points'-- and mentally they're comparing him to the peak scoring era of the NHL.
His 205, 208, and 215 consecutive seasons weren't just 'very good'- a third of the league's *teams* scored under 300 goals in the first year; the second, 9 of the 20 other teams were under 300 team goals; the last year, 7 of the 20 other teams were at 300 team goals or less, and Gretzky was within 51 points of having more points than the entire Red Wings franchise had goals in a season.
Its hard to translate that to other sports, but there's some ways to look at it that are interesting -- to put that in baseball terms, the worst scoring team in MLB history scored 372 runs-- for a single baseball player to account for a similar 80% level of runs created, they'd need to account for 298 runs.
While Bill James' formula for runs created is imperfect, Ruth's 1921 season total of 241 is the baseball record.
The best season by the best baseball player, compared to the worst scoring team in the history of baseball-- and it still doesn't compare to what Gretzky did to normal levels of NHL performance.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:06 am to ZZTIGERS
Opened the thread to post Pedro
Glad someone already did it.
Glad someone already did it.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:22 am to Mikes My Tiger
quote:
Griffey Jr. 4 year average from 1996-1999 was also pretty sick. Didn't quite have the average as Bonds but he was a scoring machine.
Averages:
52 HR
142 RBIs
123 RUNS
Both Bonds and his teammate A-Rod were significantly better during the same period
Posted on 3/1/17 at 12:38 am to molsusports
quote:
I can't recall his name atm but the great Russian heavyweight Olympic wrestler had a stupefying run that puts him in the conversation.
Aleksandr Karelin
Posted on 3/1/17 at 2:22 am to The Pain Train
So the first Money Mayweather (not Merriweather) mention is on page 4?
They have to literally invent opponents for him now lol
They have to literally invent opponents for him now lol
Posted on 3/1/17 at 4:55 am to ZZTIGERS
Rogers Hornsby, early 1920's. Two Triple Crowns, and three .400 seasons.
This post was edited on 3/1/17 at 5:06 am
Posted on 3/1/17 at 5:48 am to Jcorye1
All the Pedro fanboys need to look up Sandy Koufax. Koufax's final four seasons before retiring at age 30.
1963 27 LAD NL 25 5 .833 1.88 40 40 0 20 11 0 311.0 214 68 65 18 58 7 306 3 1 6 1210 159 1.85 0.875 6.2 0.5 1.7 8.9 5.28 AS,CYA-1,MVP-1
1964 28 LAD NL 19 5 .792 1.74 29 28 1 15 7 1 223.0 154 49 43 13 53 5 223 0 0 9 870 186 2.08 0.928 6.2 0.5 2.1 9.0 4.21 AS,CYA-3,MVP-17
1965 29 LAD NL 26 8 .765 2.04 43 41 2 27 8 2 335.2 216 90 76 26 71 4 382 5 0 11 1297 160 1.93 0.855 5.8 0.7 1.9 10.2 5.38 AS,CYA-1,MVP-2
1966 30 LAD NL 27 9 .750 1.73 41 41 0 27 5 0 323.0 241 74 62 19 77 4 317 0 0 7 1274 190 2.07 0.985 6.7 0.5 2.1 8.8 4.12 AS,CYA-1,MVP-2
Some of you need perspective. Lou Gehrig set 3 of the 6 all-time single-season RBI records between ages 24 and 28. He averaged 150 RBIs per season in the 154-game season era over the course of ELEVEN SEASONS. Between ages 21-32, Jimmie Foxx AVERAGED 44 home runs and 137 RBIs. By comparison, Albert Pujols highest RBI output in a season WAS 137.
1963 27 LAD NL 25 5 .833 1.88 40 40 0 20 11 0 311.0 214 68 65 18 58 7 306 3 1 6 1210 159 1.85 0.875 6.2 0.5 1.7 8.9 5.28 AS,CYA-1,MVP-1
1964 28 LAD NL 19 5 .792 1.74 29 28 1 15 7 1 223.0 154 49 43 13 53 5 223 0 0 9 870 186 2.08 0.928 6.2 0.5 2.1 9.0 4.21 AS,CYA-3,MVP-17
1965 29 LAD NL 26 8 .765 2.04 43 41 2 27 8 2 335.2 216 90 76 26 71 4 382 5 0 11 1297 160 1.93 0.855 5.8 0.7 1.9 10.2 5.38 AS,CYA-1,MVP-2
1966 30 LAD NL 27 9 .750 1.73 41 41 0 27 5 0 323.0 241 74 62 19 77 4 317 0 0 7 1274 190 2.07 0.985 6.7 0.5 2.1 8.8 4.12 AS,CYA-1,MVP-2
Some of you need perspective. Lou Gehrig set 3 of the 6 all-time single-season RBI records between ages 24 and 28. He averaged 150 RBIs per season in the 154-game season era over the course of ELEVEN SEASONS. Between ages 21-32, Jimmie Foxx AVERAGED 44 home runs and 137 RBIs. By comparison, Albert Pujols highest RBI output in a season WAS 137.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 5:57 am to lsutigers1992
who cares, pedro did it during the steroid ERA and Koufax did it in an ERA where guys did pushups for their weightlifting programs. Pedro did it with a short home run fence at fenway to left and right field + he had to face a DH nightly(koufax didn't) + he faced a league where 37 guys hit over 33 home runs in 2000 while koufax pitched at a time when 11 guys hit over 33 bombs in his final season.
It's like all the purists who think bill russell or bob cousy would be just as dominant today. Sure Russell has 11 rings, but didn't the NBA have like 8 teams or something back then? Bob Cousy would get utterly destroyed by even a guy like shaun livingston, a backup pg today. You can't compare guys from 50 years ago bc they're nowhere near the athletes we see today. Pedro did it all at literally the height of baseball when most players were cheating and did it with a small frame. I'm not overlooking koufax completely but Pedro was ridiculous, I don't think you remember him.
It's like all the purists who think bill russell or bob cousy would be just as dominant today. Sure Russell has 11 rings, but didn't the NBA have like 8 teams or something back then? Bob Cousy would get utterly destroyed by even a guy like shaun livingston, a backup pg today. You can't compare guys from 50 years ago bc they're nowhere near the athletes we see today. Pedro did it all at literally the height of baseball when most players were cheating and did it with a small frame. I'm not overlooking koufax completely but Pedro was ridiculous, I don't think you remember him.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 6:01 am to ZZTIGERS
Kenenisa Bekele has a strong claim
3 Olympic golds 1 silver
5 world golds 1 bronze
5k and 10k WRs (12:37.53 and 26:17.53) that may not be touched for a while
3 Olympic golds 1 silver
5 world golds 1 bronze
5k and 10k WRs (12:37.53 and 26:17.53) that may not be touched for a while
This post was edited on 3/1/17 at 6:03 am
Posted on 3/1/17 at 6:34 am to ZZTIGERS
Roy jones jr is up there too. He has the only round in compubox history to not get hit once. Think about the weoght class he started at and he ended up winning a heavyweight title. I know it was against a lack luster fighter but still.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 6:46 am to ZZTIGERS
So, you are counting those on PEDS?
Posted on 3/1/17 at 6:47 am to ZZTIGERS
Bo Jackson 87 - 90
NFL
515 carries for 2782 yards 5.4 yard average with 16 TDS
40 catches for 352 yards and 2 tds
MLB
.252 average 107 HRs 304 RBIs best outfield arm in baseball complete 5-tool player
Only athlete in history to make all-star game in two sports
completely unbelievable highlight reel in two sports. Has made plays no one before or no one since has made.
NFL
515 carries for 2782 yards 5.4 yard average with 16 TDS
40 catches for 352 yards and 2 tds
MLB
.252 average 107 HRs 304 RBIs best outfield arm in baseball complete 5-tool player
Only athlete in history to make all-star game in two sports
completely unbelievable highlight reel in two sports. Has made plays no one before or no one since has made.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 7:02 am to lsufball19
quote:
Tiger Woods' 2000 season
17 top 10 finishes in 20 tournaments played, 9 wins, 4 second place finishes, and 1 third. 3 major wins
His stat lines for the season are just absurd
LINK
During that season, he never dropped below a + 10 handicap
Posted on 3/1/17 at 7:26 am to dabigfella
quote:
I'm not overlooking koufax completely but Pedro was ridiculous, I don't think you remember him.
I remember Pedro. Pedro was close.
Almost everybody on here is talking about people they saw and are clearly influenced by the "instant history," "best performance ever," list-making mentality they see on television. Like everybody who dick-rides Mike Trout and Bryce Harper right now. Like I said before, when Jimmie Foxx and Lou Gehrig were their age, they were already having 150 RBI seasons. Trout and Harper are getting 2/3 of that in a good year.
And the "fewer teams"/PED era argument can go both ways. It's a legit concern when discussing Bill Russell and his championships. However, pretty much everybody Koufax faced was a legit major leaguer. He also faced guys like Hank Aaron, Frank Robinson, Ernie Banks, Willie Mays, and Roberto Clemente day-in, day-out. Pedro's Red Sox would get a ton of division games against the Devil Rays, who were a glorified AAA team at the time. The Orioles were basically a dumpster fire during Pedro's peak too. And teams like the Royals took bad to a whole new level. 2/3 of those guys wouldn't have sniffed a 1965 MLB roster, at least.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 7:38 am to lsutigers1992
The pitching was not as consistent back then as it is now. The pitchers didn't get as much rest and treatment. Guys were throwing 50 complete games a year
Posted on 3/1/17 at 8:02 am to lsutigers1992
quote:You need to look up Pedro's 1999-2003 seasons.
All the Pedro fanboys need to look up Sandy Koufax. Koufax's final four seasons before retiring at age 30
Posted on 3/1/17 at 8:02 am to ZZTIGERS
Pedro Martinez when he started the All-Star Game and blew everyone away.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 8:05 am to Thib-a-doe Tiger
quote:
The pitching was not as consistent back then as it is now. The pitchers didn't get as much rest and treatment. Guys were throwing 50 complete games a year
Doesn't that make 3 out of 4 seasons in a row with an ERA under 2 even more impressive, when you throw in complete games and a bunch of more innings?
Grady Little is a punch line because he let Pedro pitch the 8th in Game 7, a season at the end of his peak.
In 1965, Sandy Koufax won games 5 AND 7 of the World Series with COMPLETE GAME SHUTOUTS.
Sure it was a different time. But Goddamn that's shocking and unprecedented for big-game baseball in any era.
Posted on 3/1/17 at 8:06 am to ZZTIGERS
Pedro Martinez in the late 90s/early 2000s
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