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Started By
Message
Nick Saban has to implement a new game plan now
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:18 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:18 am
The last 6 games Saban could just pull out his old folder of "how to beat LSU" which consists of stopping the toss dive the entire game. He knew LSU would not make any offensive changes during the game. Now he has to worry about a much more diverse offense that will adapt. It is not going to be easy this time for Saban.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:30 am to ctiger69
Yes, and I think the "behind the scenes" key to winning this game is Esminger and Orgeron utilizing the element of surprise. Saban knows this isn't the same offense he's faced before, so he really only has 3 games worth of film and tendencies to plan against.
CEO and Ensminger need to look at their own game film, recognize their own tendencies, and game plan away from that. LSU cannot win this game if they don't keep Bama's defense guessing. If their LB's know when to plug gaps, and when to drop into coverage, the game is lost.
CEO and Ensminger need to look at their own game film, recognize their own tendencies, and game plan away from that. LSU cannot win this game if they don't keep Bama's defense guessing. If their LB's know when to plug gaps, and when to drop into coverage, the game is lost.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:36 am to ctiger69
quote:
The last 6 games Saban could just pull out his old folder of "how to beat LSU" which consists of stopping the toss dive the entire game.
Unfortunately, i guess you didn't realize they used the toss to l.f. on one of his long runs against ole miss?
This is the most overused, silly comment. When it works people cheer, when it doesn't, it's a stupid play.
Kind of like the short side option. When keeling williams takes it to the house against v. tech. it's a good play, when stuffed, it's a bad play.
Was Les to conservative? yes. However, to make fun a play that was just used to break a offensive record is just ignorant.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:37 am to ctiger69
Pete Jenkins has been going there twice a year to help Alabama's DLine and their gap fundamentals and technique. He may be able to provide some pointers.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:38 am to ctiger69
He now must watch for the play action
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:40 am to ctiger69
hopefully CEO gets out of that Miles mentality that we have to line up and go toe to toe with Bama and hope to dominate in the trenches.
That's not going to happen. Have to keep Bama reacting and guessing, spread them out, hit short passes and complete them nearly every time.
Lining up in the I formation and hoping to pound away is a recipe for disaster
That's not going to happen. Have to keep Bama reacting and guessing, spread them out, hit short passes and complete them nearly every time.
Lining up in the I formation and hoping to pound away is a recipe for disaster
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:41 am to dos crystal
quote:
The last 6 games Saban could just pull out his old folder of "how to beat LSU" which consists of stopping the toss dive the entire game.
quote:
Unfortunately, i guess you didn't realize they used the toss to l.f. on one of his long runs against ole miss?
I think the important point of his post was "the entire game" as in it was overused.
If my wife made my favorite meal EVERY NIGHT....I'd eventually decide it was no longer my favorite.
BTW, I was a "Miles Supporter" until the Wicy game. So, it is not as if I am anti-Miles or that play. They just BOTH got overdone.
This post was edited on 10/24/16 at 7:46 am
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:42 am to dos crystal
quote:
Unfortunately, i guess you didn't realize they used the toss to l.f. on one of his long runs against ole miss?
This is the most overused, silly comment. When it works people cheer, when it doesn't, it's a stupid play
I don't understand where you're coming from. we don't hate the toss dive. we hate it when it's 90% of the offense and the other team knows it's coming every time.
do you think it's a coincidence that LF7 played over 2 dozen games under les miles, and then he played one under Coach O and set the single game all-time record for Yardage by a tailback? and he only had 16 carries?
it's because the other time didn't know WHEN we were going to run the toss dive and couldn't load up the box.
it's not that hard a concept to grasp, which is the point of the OP.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:48 am to dos crystal
Its been covered, but I'm replying anyway.
Running toss dive =/= running toss dive into 10 men in the box. When you have fullbacks like we do, you've got a lead blocker that can wreak havoc and spring a guy like Fournette or Guice.
But its still a numbers game. So if the other team cheats up on the line, having a lead blocker doesn't mean anything. They've still got numbers.
But when you (gasp) actually show a little diversity on offense and use the play action effectively, you can run things like toss dive because the defense has to respect the pass. Then you've got a guy that, if he makes a block and your RB can hit that next gear, he can take it to the house.
Running toss dive =/= running toss dive into 10 men in the box. When you have fullbacks like we do, you've got a lead blocker that can wreak havoc and spring a guy like Fournette or Guice.
But its still a numbers game. So if the other team cheats up on the line, having a lead blocker doesn't mean anything. They've still got numbers.
But when you (gasp) actually show a little diversity on offense and use the play action effectively, you can run things like toss dive because the defense has to respect the pass. Then you've got a guy that, if he makes a block and your RB can hit that next gear, he can take it to the house.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:50 am to ctiger69
quote:
l out his old folder of "how to beat LSU" which consists of stopping the toss dive the entire game
Dumbassery
LSU attempted to throw every every Bama game or do you forget the game changing INTs?
Saban will play hat on hat with hi FS as always- not reinvent his D lol
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:51 am to stephendomalley
quote:
do you think it's a coincidence that LF7 played over 2 dozen games under les miles, and then he played one under Coach O and set the single game all-time record for Yardage by a tailback? and he only had 16 carries?
Yeah, all those 200+ yard games he had last season were a fluke. In fact, they were a media generated lie that never happened.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:52 am to elprez00
We are actually going to complete mid to long passes consistently and it will open up the running game for Fournette and Guice and play action will actually work this time.
It will be an interesting game to watch.
Gone are the "I'm going to toss dive every other play with my stud RB and hope we wear the best defense in football out by the 4th quarter days"
I predict a toss dive, ran at the right time, is going to go for big yards this game, because it will be actually set up properly.
It will be an interesting game to watch.
Gone are the "I'm going to toss dive every other play with my stud RB and hope we wear the best defense in football out by the 4th quarter days"
I predict a toss dive, ran at the right time, is going to go for big yards this game, because it will be actually set up properly.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:52 am to stephendomalley
The I formation is a good reliable stable of the LSU playbook. It was utilized in 2 of the 3 scoring plays by fournette if Im not mistaken. With an improved passing game......(2 fingers crossed) LSU may come out with the win. The last 2 times the tigers have played bama tough in Tiger stadium.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:53 am to stephendomalley
quote:
I don't understand where you're coming from. we don't hate the toss dive. we hate it when it's 90% of the offense and the other team knows it's coming every time.
False statement. Was never used 90% of the time.
quote:
do you think it's a coincidence that LF7 played over 2 dozen games under les miles, and then he played one under Coach O and set the single game all-time record for Yardage by a tailback?
LF set the season record last year. it's not like he was performing poorly prior to O. He was a Heisman candidate for goodness sakes. You are discrediting l.f.'s talent and ability. he was very close to breaking the single game rushing record last year and would have done it against syracuse if not for a couple long runs called back on penalties.
quote:
it's because the other time didn't know WHEN we were going to run the toss dive and couldn't load up the box.
ole miss loaded the box most of the night. It's why l.f. got the long runs. Once you break the line of scrimmage, no one left to get you. It's not like they had two deep safeties waiting on him 15 yards from the line of scrimmage.
quote:
it's not that hard a concept to grasp
It must be because you haven't grasped the offense isn't much different. Two things are different. 1) the qb is playing much better and recognizing the second option better. 2) Wisconsin and Au defenses are some of the best in the country. Southern Miss, Mizzou, and Ole Miss, are not.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:53 am to ctiger69
OK... I'm in. I'll have some of this Koolaid.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 7:56 am to ctiger69
I knew when Nick Saban, Hugh Freeze, etc were all sad and disappointed that Miles was gone that we had made the correct decision
Now all the game film they've had on us for the last 3 seasons is worthless. An unpredictable LSU is the most dangerous LSU
Now all the game film they've had on us for the last 3 seasons is worthless. An unpredictable LSU is the most dangerous LSU
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:01 am to dos crystal
quote:
Unfortunately, i guess you didn't realize they used the toss to l.f. on one of his long runs against ole miss?
The toss dive works well when your offense is controlling the line of scrimmage, has good momentum and is used when the defense stacks the box. If OL gets their initial blocks at the line of attack and the RB breaks the line to scrimmage the chances of taking it to the house are pretty high especially with RBs like LF and Guice.
There is a place for the toss dive. IMO you don't used the toss dive when you are trying to use clock. You used the toss dive in quick snap and no huddle situations mixed in with a variety of plays.
With that said all plays are more executable if you have an OC that can call plays that are slightly unpredictable.
Miles was terribly predictable.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:03 am to Mayhawman
quote:
Dumbassery
LSU attempted to throw every every Bama game or do you forget the game changing INTs?
Saban will play hat on hat with hi FS as always- not reinvent his D lol
He never said Saban would have to actually reinvent Bama's defense, just adjust the game plan from what he knew was Miles' all too predictable dog and pony show.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:08 am to Mike da Tigah
Look if we can run that type of offense we ran saturday night, I'll take it over any other in the country. When you can run a lot of physical plays and impose your will, it wears down a defense. That 4th quarter was a thing of beauty. We were running into 10 men and they couldn't stop it because Ole Miss was completely gassed. But you can't do that all night and expect it to work.
Posted on 10/24/16 at 8:26 am to ctiger69
Les was setting up the toss dive reverse flee-flicker tight end throw back, but never got the chance to use it. Maybe CEO will try it play 1 from scrimmage.
Seriously though. If you paid attention to the offense, it's not a ton different, but has added the wrinkles necessary that Miles just wouldn't implement. Specifically formations like an offset I with both RBs, and I'm not sure the name of the formation, but it set up with I-form, 2 WR to one side and TE to the other on the line, and they were running to the tight end side. It pulls the safeties to a more balanced position and keeps the front 7 in a base look where they can't just crowd the line because the threat to pass. I think LF broke a couple long ones in this against Ole Miss and when they adjusted to stop LF, they passed to the TE and utilized some WR crossing routes.
I'm sure it won't be as easy against Bama, but at least there's rhyme and reason behind trying to take advantage of formations. Les' biggest drawback was a lack of formation creativity/advantages and his predictability of play calling out of certain packages.
So long post to say,
Seriously though. If you paid attention to the offense, it's not a ton different, but has added the wrinkles necessary that Miles just wouldn't implement. Specifically formations like an offset I with both RBs, and I'm not sure the name of the formation, but it set up with I-form, 2 WR to one side and TE to the other on the line, and they were running to the tight end side. It pulls the safeties to a more balanced position and keeps the front 7 in a base look where they can't just crowd the line because the threat to pass. I think LF broke a couple long ones in this against Ole Miss and when they adjusted to stop LF, they passed to the TE and utilized some WR crossing routes.
I'm sure it won't be as easy against Bama, but at least there's rhyme and reason behind trying to take advantage of formations. Les' biggest drawback was a lack of formation creativity/advantages and his predictability of play calling out of certain packages.
So long post to say,
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