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How do other states handle Public vs Private in HS football?
Posted on 6/7/16 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 6/7/16 at 4:03 pm
I get both sides of the argument but hate the current set up. Too many teams making post-season is a joke, and the regular season/district standing now means nothing. But i also see the advantages a private school has.
Surely some other states have this figured out.
Surely some other states have this figured out.
Posted on 6/7/16 at 4:08 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
In Missouri, everyone is part of the same state association. Private schools numbers are doubled (or some other formula) for classifications.
That is pretty much it. Everyone plays everyone.
For example: Rockhurst HS (private boys HS in KC) has around 1000 students. Normally, that would put them in Class 4 (out of 6). But since they are private, their numbers are doubled. Then they become Class 6 for competition.
That is pretty much it. Everyone plays everyone.
For example: Rockhurst HS (private boys HS in KC) has around 1000 students. Normally, that would put them in Class 4 (out of 6). But since they are private, their numbers are doubled. Then they become Class 6 for competition.
This post was edited on 6/7/16 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 6/7/16 at 4:14 pm to 5thTiger
Do they double the number for a co-ed private school too? because they would have half as many boys. Interesting.
Posted on 6/7/16 at 4:20 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
Do they double the number for a co-ed private school too?
Yep. Double single sex privates...and just looked it up 1.35 multiplier for private schools.
So if you are a single sex, you double, then add 1.35 multiplier.
Co-ed private has 1.35 multiplier after doubling as well
This post was edited on 6/7/16 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 6/7/16 at 4:21 pm to 5thTiger
in California the Catholic schools dominate football. they give scholarships to the best players coming up. De La Salle is #1 year in year out. Other Catholic, Lutheran and protestant Christian schools win the smaller school classifications.
Mater Dei dominates basketball.
2015 results
BERKELEY -- The Bishop O'Dowd High boys basketball team took down four-time defending state champion Mater Dei-Santa Ana 65-64 in overtime in Saturday's Open Division final, finally putting an end to more than three decades of state title game frustrations.
a generation ago, a small division public school defeated Mater Dei in a match game between the Class A champ public school undefeated and the big class champs. the coach was the father of one of the players. Cap Lavin, and his son went on to coach UCLA and St Johns.
Mater Dei dominates basketball.
2015 results
BERKELEY -- The Bishop O'Dowd High boys basketball team took down four-time defending state champion Mater Dei-Santa Ana 65-64 in overtime in Saturday's Open Division final, finally putting an end to more than three decades of state title game frustrations.
a generation ago, a small division public school defeated Mater Dei in a match game between the Class A champ public school undefeated and the big class champs. the coach was the father of one of the players. Cap Lavin, and his son went on to coach UCLA and St Johns.
This post was edited on 6/7/16 at 9:32 pm
Posted on 6/7/16 at 4:22 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
quote:
Do they double the number for a co-ed private school too? because they would have half as many boys. Interesting.
yes, which screws over some of the smaller, religious, co-ed schools.
They had to put in the multiplier, especially when you have 1 school, who literally recruits kids from 2 states to go there(Rockhurst)
Posted on 6/7/16 at 4:24 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Private schools in AL use a 1.35 multiplier in classification (6 classes)
Some of the smallest privates have their own organization completely separate from the AHSAA
Some of the smallest privates have their own organization completely separate from the AHSAA
This post was edited on 6/7/16 at 4:27 pm
Posted on 6/7/16 at 5:13 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Tennessee, to the best of my memory and keeping up with this thing since playing, works like this.
There is one HS athletic body in the state (TSSAA) and the vast majority (95%+) compete in what is known as DI. DI includes all of Tennessee's public schools and a portion of its private ones. DI is grouped A through 3A in non-football sports by enrollment and region. Football is grouped A through 6A. Private schools that offer athletic scholarships get a multiplier applied to their enrollment.
DII is much smaller and consists of private schools primarily (if not entirely) from the metro areas of Memphis, Jackson, Nashville, Chattanooga, and Knoxville. They are divided into A and 2A for all sports by enrollment.
My HS is private and did not offer athletic schollies and competed in DI in an A region during my time there. They have since moved to DII to be with other private schools in the Memphis and Jackson area. The Jackson private schools were all DI at the time but now I think all of them have moved to DII with us.
I could be wrong, but that's the nuts and bolts of it.
Edit. I am wrong. DI schools that charge tuition must not offer scholarships of any kind. Those that do must be in DII. Private schools in DI still get a multiplier.
There is one HS athletic body in the state (TSSAA) and the vast majority (95%+) compete in what is known as DI. DI includes all of Tennessee's public schools and a portion of its private ones. DI is grouped A through 3A in non-football sports by enrollment and region. Football is grouped A through 6A. Private schools that offer athletic scholarships get a multiplier applied to their enrollment.
DII is much smaller and consists of private schools primarily (if not entirely) from the metro areas of Memphis, Jackson, Nashville, Chattanooga, and Knoxville. They are divided into A and 2A for all sports by enrollment.
My HS is private and did not offer athletic schollies and competed in DI in an A region during my time there. They have since moved to DII to be with other private schools in the Memphis and Jackson area. The Jackson private schools were all DI at the time but now I think all of them have moved to DII with us.
I could be wrong, but that's the nuts and bolts of it.
Edit. I am wrong. DI schools that charge tuition must not offer scholarships of any kind. Those that do must be in DII. Private schools in DI still get a multiplier.
This post was edited on 6/7/16 at 5:19 pm
Posted on 6/7/16 at 5:17 pm to CelticDog
Yeah Cali is overwhelmed with big famous private high schools...like Mater Dei and De La Salle (which won 151 games in a row without losing - national record.)
But California public schools like Long Beach Poly was named by Sports Illustrated as the #1 Sports School of the Century.
So, it's not like Louisiana where public schools just lost to private schools.
It's a good balance in Cali.
But California public schools like Long Beach Poly was named by Sports Illustrated as the #1 Sports School of the Century.
So, it's not like Louisiana where public schools just lost to private schools.
It's a good balance in Cali.
Posted on 6/7/16 at 7:38 pm to genro
quote:
(6 classes)
There's 7 classes now. The upcoming season will be the third year with class 7A
Posted on 6/7/16 at 7:41 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
Texas they are completely separate leagues and classifications. Strake Jesuit and Dallas Jesuit play in the highest public class (6A formerly 5A) but they are exceptions.
Posted on 6/7/16 at 8:37 pm to ShaneTheLegLechler
quote:
Strake Jesuit and Dallas Jesuit play in the highest public class (6A formerly 5A) but they are exceptions.
What's the reason behind that? Are they the only two private schools playing in a public class?
Posted on 6/7/16 at 8:41 pm to brewhan davey
I don't remember the original story around them joining, I know Strake was indepedent for a bit. They are the only two privates that play with public schools though and both are pretty competitive.
A lot of public schools play the larger private schools out of district, especially in basketball and baseball.
A lot of public schools play the larger private schools out of district, especially in basketball and baseball.
This post was edited on 6/7/16 at 8:42 pm
Posted on 6/7/16 at 9:28 pm to brewhan davey
quote:
What's the reason behind that? Are they the only two private schools playing in a public class?
I think what lends to the public schools being so strong in Texas is the ISD setup. It's not County based. Meaning an individual town or part of a town can form an ISD with primarily higher income and high property values to fund just their schools. They don't have the expenses of a real city or at a much smaller scale and leech all of the benefits of being near a big city while contributing nothing back to that city. See Southlake just outside of DFW, they can set up zoning and laws to essentially keep "the poors" out. That is unless you can play football or baseball real well then I'm sure an affordable apartment suddenly becomes available.
Posted on 6/7/16 at 10:39 pm to EvrybodysAllAmerican
In Georgia, the stark contrast isn't so much private vs. public as it is city vs. county schools. City schools here are allowed to admit out of district students if they pay tuition and of course the city schools offer scholarships to out of district athletes. This results in the city schools basically acting as private schools with even larger resources and alumni base. The city schools in the larger counties dominate because they are basically fielding county all star teams pulling from the surrounding county schools.
There are a few private schools that do well in the smaller classifications, but for the most part high school athletics, especially football and basketball, are dominated by city schools.
There are a few private schools that do well in the smaller classifications, but for the most part high school athletics, especially football and basketball, are dominated by city schools.
Posted on 6/7/16 at 11:35 pm to 5thTiger
quote:
In Missouri, everyone is part of the same state association. Private schools numbers are doubled (or some other formula) for classifications.
That is pretty much it. Everyone plays everyone.
For example: Rockhurst HS (private boys HS in KC) has around 1000 students. Normally, that would put them in Class 4 (out of 6). But since they are private, their numbers are doubled. Then they become Class 6 for competition.
And it's extreme bullshite. Private schools can recruit, especially those in KC and STL that can draw talent from entirely different states (ks and IL). Yeah they have a "multiplier" on private schools that move them up a class, but they still have an unfair advantage over public schools (see Rockhurst in KC, SLUH, Vianney, CBC in STL).
Private schools should compete against private schools. Public schools should compete against public schools. Simple as that.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 12:16 am to KCM0Tiger
And as a result yall dont have the best football possible... I get private schools have to attract kids, but public doesn't. They can just draw a line and get every kid in it. If they don't have enough money, they just hit up taxpayers like you and me for more
Posted on 6/8/16 at 6:08 am to chalmetteowl
In the state of Ohio, Catholic schools have been dominating for the better part of 40 years. It reached a point of no return and a vote to split the public/private schools took place. Once that happened the OHSAA put in place a multiplier that will take place in 2017. Basically, the new policy will make it harder for kids to transfer just to play sports....in both public and private.
Public Schools:
Kids who transfer during high school will be counted as x2.
Private Schools:
Kids who transfer during middle school will eventually be counted as x2. Kids who transfer during high school will be counted as x3.
Public Schools:
Kids who transfer during high school will be counted as x2.
Private Schools:
Kids who transfer during middle school will eventually be counted as x2. Kids who transfer during high school will be counted as x3.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 6:52 am to Buckeye Backer
Further in Ohio, there are 7 divisions all based on number of boys per HS, with the largest being Div 1. Each division is broken up into 4 regions, with the top 8 teams making the playoffs based on total computer points (about 1/3 of the teams the state). All publics and privates compete vs each other in all divisions and all sports. Competitive balance is supposed to help even it out in 2017, but all it will do is bump smaller private schools up to larger divisions. Since 2000, publics have only won the D1 title 4 times (Upper Arlington - 2000, Cincinnati Colerain - 2004, Hilliard Davidson - 2006 & 2009). The rest have been won by Cincy and Cleveland private schools.
Posted on 6/8/16 at 7:25 am to tress4pres
In regards to the two Jesuits in Texas the reason they are in The UIL(public league) and not TAAPS (private) is because they are both overwhelmingly larger then every other private school in the state. TAAPS refused them membership so they petitioned the UIL and an exception was made. If Both Jesuits were in TAAPS they would never lose in any sport ever.
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