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re: Bill Barnwell of ESPN doesn't really like the Saints offseason moves...
Posted on 5/18/16 at 7:24 pm to clooneyisgod
Posted on 5/18/16 at 7:24 pm to clooneyisgod
Disagree.
They would never have sniffed 7-9 without Drew and Payton's offense.
They would never have sniffed 7-9 without Drew and Payton's offense.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 7:25 pm to goatmilker
quote:
So much is chemistry, injuries, luck and everyone getting on the same page if just for a few years.
I've always said this (IRL), but people always overlook this.. Anyone who has ever played sports after the pee wee level knows this, especially if you've been on a championship team...
This post was edited on 5/18/16 at 7:28 pm
Posted on 5/18/16 at 7:51 pm to clooneyisgod
quote:
Exactly. It's been years since the Saints offense really scared other teams regardless of stats. Not to mention that, even in our best years (2006, 2009, 2010, and 2011), we were a team with a high end offense and an average at best defense. So as far as I'm concerned at least while Brees and Payton are here, our best chance at winning big is to have an elite offense.
we won it all with a turnover happy defense, but the one thing that stayed true through the best years was an efficient offense in both aspects: running and passing.
It isn't some new discovery that we suck when we can't create a balanced attack either.
Our top 5 needs going into the offseason were:
DT > G > WR/TE > LB > DB
DT: nobody could create a push, we went and signed Fairley who creates pressure, but can never finish. Drafted Rankins who was arguably the best pure DT in the draft
G: We didn't address this much outside of our own guys and UDFA who may-may not pan out at all.
WR/TE: "Brees makes weapons" but that doesn't mean you don't get him weapons to ease his burden. Watson and Colston are gone/old, Hill and Coleman may never be much in their careers, so we went and got Fleener. Next, we drafted Michael Thomas...a player who's biggest asset is his ability to make contested catches and high pointing the ball (i.e. red zone target).
LB: We made Ellerbe's contract more manageable, we shifted Anthony to OLB since it was obvious he was struggling with being the "QB" of the defense, and we still had a couple of voids at 3rd and 4th linebackers. Went and signed Laurinaitis, arguably the smartest and healthiest ILB on the market to come in and teach Anthony and run the defense while Anthony can transition to playing instinctively as opposed to trying to do too many things at once. We also signed one of the more underrated coverage LBs in Stupar and shifted Kikaha to a more pass-rush DE/OLB role instead of dropping back.
DB: We get back Lewis, Williams, and Swann. We kept a decent nickel in Wilson. On paper, it is loaded with cornerbacks, where we lack is safeties. We lost Bush, we cut oft-injured honkey badger, and we went and got arguably the #1 coverage safety in the draft.
We didn't overpay for pass rush help at DT/DE who were a product of the system (Malik Jackson) nor did we overpay for inconsistent "potential" pass rushers (Olivier Vernon) defensively.
We did "overpay" (IMO at least) for TE help, but the guy has talent and had to split it with another TE in Indy's system. We got bargain players who can make a difference instead of swinging for home runs as well. Completely different offseason in terms of mindset..
Posted on 5/18/16 at 10:26 pm to Lester Earl
We have brought in a ton in the front 7 on defense, enough, IMO, for the defense to improve enough for us to win 10-11 games.
The key is the health of our secondary.
The key is the health of our secondary.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 11:25 pm to LSUAlum2001
Names we can be optimistic about as fans, but they have to perform.
Laurenitis, Byrd, Vaccaro, Ellerbe and Fairley cannot be the bad version of themselves (healthy too)
Breaux has to follow up
Rankins holds his own
Jordan gets help rushing the passer
Anthony and Kikaha get acclimated
at least 1 of Edebali or richardson "break out"
What's the constant on D we can count on? Jordan has a 4 year track record of being above average. I know this will be viewed as being negative, but that's all we can count on. the talent is there for the others but which version will we get?
That said, I do like the shape the offense is in. This is a 9 win team in vegas without that questionable D
Laurenitis, Byrd, Vaccaro, Ellerbe and Fairley cannot be the bad version of themselves (healthy too)
Breaux has to follow up
Rankins holds his own
Jordan gets help rushing the passer
Anthony and Kikaha get acclimated
at least 1 of Edebali or richardson "break out"
What's the constant on D we can count on? Jordan has a 4 year track record of being above average. I know this will be viewed as being negative, but that's all we can count on. the talent is there for the others but which version will we get?
That said, I do like the shape the offense is in. This is a 9 win team in vegas without that questionable D
Posted on 5/18/16 at 11:33 pm to GynoSandberg
i feel like the Saints can win 9 games. I'd find it hard to believe the defense could any worse than they were last year.
assuming we don't have some crap luck when it comes to injuries.
assuming we don't have some crap luck when it comes to injuries.
Posted on 5/18/16 at 11:43 pm to LooseCannon22282
Realistic expectations are somewhere in that mediocre 7-9 to 9-7 range. It's about where we have been stuck the last couple of years with even horrible defenses. Even if there aren't any real improvements that's where I expect to be. If the defense is marginally improved, which isn't a given, then we can hope to push for at least 9 wins. If it shows real improvement, which I'm really not holding my breath for, then 10 wins should be possible.
People expecting this to be a 4 or 5 win team, which I have seen predicted recently are being beyond the pail pessimistic. I can't see that happening with a healthy Brees.
People expecting this to be a 4 or 5 win team, which I have seen predicted recently are being beyond the pail pessimistic. I can't see that happening with a healthy Brees.
This post was edited on 5/18/16 at 11:46 pm
Posted on 5/19/16 at 8:01 am to LSUAlum2001
quote:
We have brought in a ton in the front 7 on defense, enough, IMO, for the defense to improve enough for us to win 10-11 games.
The key is the health of our secondary.
Yep. A big issue for our defense last year was depth.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 8:02 am to Peazey
quote:
Realistic expectations are somewhere in that mediocre 7-9 to 9-7 range. It's about where we have been stuck the last couple of years with even horrible defenses. Even if there aren't any real improvements that's where I expect to be. If the defense is marginally improved, which isn't a given, then we can hope to push for at least 9 wins. If it shows real improvement, which I'm really not holding my breath for, then 10 wins should be possible.
I tend to agree as a healthy Brees can clearly take a 3-13 team to 7-9.
I keep hearing that the schedule is tougher this year and that the Saints can be greatly improved and still only go 7-9.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 8:08 am to VetteGuy
Schedule strength at this point is absolutely meaningless with the parity of the NFL.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 8:23 am to GynoSandberg
The key to this year is having a real vision for the defense. We can't be changing directions year to year like we've been.
I think we've added the players to start heading in the right direction, but it's all meaningless unless we have a real identity.
I think we've added the players to start heading in the right direction, but it's all meaningless unless we have a real identity.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 8:28 am to VetteGuy
There's also a lot of luck involved. A couple of bonces here and there can make the difference for a couple of games.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 8:29 am to Patrick O Rly
I've said this before, but people lambast us for the terrible defense these last two years...but realize we still went 7-9. All time worst defenses and we still won 7 games with that.
We won't stop working to keep our offense top flight by drafting Michael Thomas and Daniel Lasco or signing Fleener. So we don't need a good defense even. From terrible to just average. That's all we need. We had a great draft defensively last year those guys are a year older and wiser and hopefully all of them don't sophomore slump.
And seems like every year except the one Payton wasn't here, a new DC comes in and we field a good defense. This DC had a chance to learn the whole roster inside and out, but not use his own philosphies first and foremost.
If a good defense happens, we not only are in the playoffs, we are back in contention.
D+? Like hell...
We won't stop working to keep our offense top flight by drafting Michael Thomas and Daniel Lasco or signing Fleener. So we don't need a good defense even. From terrible to just average. That's all we need. We had a great draft defensively last year those guys are a year older and wiser and hopefully all of them don't sophomore slump.
And seems like every year except the one Payton wasn't here, a new DC comes in and we field a good defense. This DC had a chance to learn the whole roster inside and out, but not use his own philosphies first and foremost.
If a good defense happens, we not only are in the playoffs, we are back in contention.
D+? Like hell...
Posted on 5/19/16 at 9:01 am to Peazey
quote:
People expecting this to be a 4 or 5 win team, which I have seen predicted recently are being beyond the pail pessimistic. I can't see that happening with a healthy Brees.
The funny thing is, the past two seasons most of our losses happened in the 4th quarters. We were in almost every game competitively minus a few that were just not our day. Hell, the Carolina game came down to the last play on a corner TD to Cooks that was picked off with McCown under center.
So with horrible defenses, we are losing no more than 9 games that could have easily been 5 or 6 given some breaks. This defense WILL be better. We will improve on that side of the ball. I also believe the offense will improve. I can see 9-12 wins if everything clicks and we stay healthy with great play and better schemes on D. It's also possible we have another 7-9 season before this VERY young team finds themselves. I predict the year it happens for us to be 2017. I hope we have a good season this year, and it will be fun to watch this you team develop it's next crop of fan favorites. But it's gonna take 3 or 4 years to field another championship caliber team IF we start hitting on draft picks. So far, things are looking pretty optimistic from my standpoint. But I'm an idiot homer, so my opinion is pretty worthless.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 9:23 am to whodatfan
And I think we have at least 1 more win (Tampa) if Brees doesn't get hurt last year
Possibly 2 with how well our D played vs Carolina
Possibly 2 with how well our D played vs Carolina
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:20 am to VetteGuy
quote:
I keep hearing that the schedule is tougher this year and that the Saints can be greatly improved and still only go 7-9.
If we were playing last year's teams with this year's schedule, but nobody knows how difficult it really will be until the season has already been played.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:34 am to Let Me Take A Selfie
quote:
Laurinaitis
Don't understand the constant complaints about this signing. We got a good deal on a veteran defensive quarterback.
This post was edited on 5/19/16 at 10:35 am
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:41 am to Peazey
Strength of schedule based on the year before is about as useful as espn's power rankings anytime of year.
Posted on 5/19/16 at 10:46 am to bonethug0108
And?
Oh, I thought you were going to say more. A lot more.
Oh, I thought you were going to say more. A lot more.
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