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Posted on 2/16/16 at 9:42 am to upgrayedd
quote:
That's kinda scary that you're ignoring these people's Constitutional rights.
Again, part of claiming self defense is being able to articulate your justification for using lethal action.
If you refuse to justify your actions the investigator has no other choice if their are no other witnesses.
And a statement given before you have been coached into what to say will always be seen as more credible.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 9:53 am to theenemy
quote:
Again, part of claiming self defense is being able to articulate your justification for using lethal action.
If you refuse to justify your actions the investigator has no other choice if their are no other witnesses.
And a statement given before you have been coached into what to say will always be seen as more credible.
You are really starting to piss me off trying to violate my fricking miranda rights. Counseling with an attorney after you shot someone in self defense has ZERO downfall. Your feelings don't matter. You also sound like a shitty fricking detective or whatever you are. Also, there's also civil suits to worry about as well.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 9:55 am to Chad504boy
quote:Read up on Miranda before making these kind of statements.
You are really starting to piss me off trying to violate my fricking miranda rights.
quote:Those may come no matter what.
Also, there's also civil suits to worry about as well.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:09 am to theenemy
quote:
Again, part of claiming self defense is being able to articulate your justification for using lethal action.
If you refuse to justify your actions the investigator has no other choice if their are no other witnesses.
And a statement given before you have been coached into what to say will always be seen as more credible.
Talking to the cops when there are no witnesses seems like a terrible idea. It's your word against what the cop thinks might have happened (provided the person you shot is dead). Also, it's not my job to prove myself as innocent. It's your job to prove I committed a crime.
There is literally nothing good that could come from me talking to the cops after an incident like that with no witnesses. The cop could take the smallest oddball thing you said while in shock and make a potential case out of it. You essentially give him potential ammo where there previously was none.
If you came up on me after a shooting with no witnesses, would you take me to jail or listen to my explanation before deciding whether to haul me in or not?
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:15 am to AlxTgr
quote:
Read up on Miranda before making these kind of statements.
i watched killing fields. i'm all caught up.
PS, you may think you know what you talking about but you've provided zero reasons on why its good for someone to talk to the detectives before retaining counsel,
This post was edited on 2/16/16 at 10:16 am
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:17 am to diat150
quote:
You absolutely do not want to tell a police/investigator anything without a lawyer present. You are asking to frick up and say the wrong thing in a tense situation that may cost you in the long run. what you tell a cop in the heat of the moment may end up being the deciding factor in what is justified and what isnt.
This.
What my CC class instructor said was, if you do end up in a situation where you have to use your firearm to protect yourself (whether your in your own home or not) is after 911 is called and cops show up, you say "There is the threat, there are the witnesses, and this is my firearm, I will talk to you in 24 hours after I talk to my lawyer". He said the cops will try and make you feel comfortable to get you to make a statement by saying something along the lines of "oh this is an easy case, you will be okay, just tell me everything that happened", and just keep telling them "I will talk to you in 24 hours after I talk to my lawyer" or nothing at all. That was by far the biggest thing they stressed in the class other than firearm safety.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:50 am to JTM72
I'd be willing to bet the police union tells cops to do the same thing when they have to kill someone in the LOD.
Look, I'm not gonna stand their like a mute, I'm gonna give them the basic info.
But just based on my interaction with the piss-poor police that are on the Causeway, I'm sure not gonna agree to be interviewed by some junior-grade detective or anyone else, w/o a lawyer.
Plus, there's about a 90% chance that the cop you're talking to has never fired his weapon anyway, so you already know way more than him.
Look, I'm not gonna stand their like a mute, I'm gonna give them the basic info.
But just based on my interaction with the piss-poor police that are on the Causeway, I'm sure not gonna agree to be interviewed by some junior-grade detective or anyone else, w/o a lawyer.
Plus, there's about a 90% chance that the cop you're talking to has never fired his weapon anyway, so you already know way more than him.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:51 am to Chad504boy
quote:You're really not.
i'm all caught up.
quote:That's simply not the case.
PS, you may think you know what you talking about but you've provided zero reasons on why its good for someone to talk to the detectives before retaining counsel,
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:52 am to Chad504boy
quote:
PS, you may think you know what you talking about but you've provided zero reasons on why its good for someone to talk to the detectives before retaining counsel,
Well, for starters it could save you tens of thousands of dollars in attorney's fees and some time in jail.
You think thenemy's post are self serving but completely ignore the self serving nature of the article in the OP.
No one should be making sweeping statements as to the proper way to act after any shooting. This is not a one size fits all situation.
If I'm pumping gas late at night and a guy comes up to me and sticks a gun in my back asking for my wallet and I'm able to draw my gun and shoot him, I'm giving a statement. I know I was justified and I would much rather give a statement and go home to my wife and kids than exercise my right to remain silent and spend the night and jail and pay an attorney $20K so he can tell me to say exactly what I was going to say anyway.
Now, if I'm in an argument with a guy and things get heated, he reaches for his waistband and I draw my gun and shoot him, I'm probably not giving a statement, but I'm also an idiot for getting myself in that situation.
I don't think anyone would be correct to say always give a statement or never give a statement. If you are absolutely sure that you were justified in using deadly force then I see no reason not to give a statement.
If it was up to this lawyer, everyone would refuse to give a statement and retain him for a small fee
. Why do you think he has that boilerplate statement on the back of his business cards.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:54 am to UpToPar
Posted on 2/16/16 at 10:57 am to UpToPar
I guess the problem here is that law enforcement doesn't trust the general public to always tell the truth and the general public doesn't trust law enforcement to always tell the truth, either. That's just the way it is. None of us want to get railroaded and go to prison after justly defending ourselves/family because of some innocuous statement we may say that is common sense but may not be "legal". Tough call to make and I hope I never have to make that call.
This post was edited on 2/16/16 at 11:02 am
Posted on 2/16/16 at 11:03 am to UpToPar
You kill someone, justified or not, in about 90% of the cases you're gonna spend a ton of money.
A lot of y'all are banking on the good will and professionalism of the police.
That's a damn risky move, IMO.
A lot of y'all are banking on the good will and professionalism of the police.
That's a damn risky move, IMO.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 11:04 am to BFIV
quote:
I guess the problem here is that law enforcement doesn't trust the general public to always tell the truth and the general public doesn't trust law enforcement to always tell the truth, either. That's just the way it is.
Spot on.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 11:05 am to UpToPar
quote:
Well, for starters it could save you tens of thousands of dollars in attorney's fees and some time in jail.
You think thenemy's post are self serving but completely ignore the self serving nature of the article in the OP.
No one should be making sweeping statements as to the proper way to act after any shooting. This is not a one size fits all situation.
If I'm pumping gas late at night and a guy comes up to me and sticks a gun in my back asking for my wallet and I'm able to draw my gun and shoot him, I'm giving a statement. I know I was justified and I would much rather give a statement and go home to my wife and kids than exercise my right to remain silent and spend the night and jail and pay an attorney $20K so he can tell me to say exactly what I was going to say anyway.
Now, if I'm in an argument with a guy and things get heated, he reaches for his waistband and I draw my gun and shoot him, I'm probably not giving a statement, but I'm also an idiot for getting myself in that situation.
I don't think anyone would be correct to say always give a statement or never give a statement. If you are absolutely sure that you were justified in using deadly force then I see no reason not to give a statement.
If it was up to this lawyer, everyone would refuse to give a statement and retain him for a small fee . Why do you think he has that boilerplate statement on the back of his business cards.
retaining counsel/not retaining counsel ... if you are justified, you aren't spending 20k for counsel services. Lots of people know an attorney they have at their disposal for friendlier fees for some minor guidance. But hey, 20k makes your point seem so super duper.
Talk all you want. Up to you. You still haven't gained much and are jeopardizing way more.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 11:06 am to VetteGuy
I've seen way more instances of cops going out of their way to help absolve someone than burn them. In fact, that's pretty much all I see in my death cases. I have one now you really would not believe. The cop must have spent 10-12 hours over the course of several days documenting everything possible to clear the survivor.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 11:07 am to Chad504boy
I was thinking more combined fees with the legal (minor, if justified) and civil.
You can count on a civil suit.
You can count on a civil suit.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 11:08 am to Chad504boy
quote:
Talk all you want. Up to you. You still haven't gained much and are jeopardizing way more.
This is my gut feeling, too. Is my "uneducated to the law but common sense statement" going to send me to prison? I'd rather not take that chance.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 11:09 am to AlxTgr
Like I said, professionalism varies greatly.
You sure as hell won't find that on the NOPD or from the Causeway Police.
I don't know who I'm dealing with so I'm loathe to take a chance in such a serious manner.
You sure as hell won't find that on the NOPD or from the Causeway Police.
I don't know who I'm dealing with so I'm loathe to take a chance in such a serious manner.
Posted on 2/16/16 at 11:11 am to VetteGuy
quote:
I'd be willing to bet the police union tells cops to do the same thing when they have to kill someone in the LOD.
Very good point, VetteGuy. Now I want to know just WHAT LEO are instructed to do when they have to shoot someone.
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