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Started By
Message
re: Defense Lawyers point of view for using your concealed firearm
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:53 pm to theenemy
Posted on 2/15/16 at 7:53 pm to theenemy
quote:
I was raised to tell the truth regardless. Again, I don't need an attorney to tell me when telling the truth is in my best interest. Too me, the truth is always in my best interest.
This has been told by almost every investigator to almost every person presently residing in prison.
1
Posted on 2/15/16 at 8:02 pm to EA6B
quote:
This has been told by almost every investigator to almost every person presently residing in prison.
Well its just crazy how often as an investigator subjects "lawyer up" only to pay an attorney to bring them to my office 2-3 days later and have me interview them while the attorney sits in the lobby.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 8:51 pm to VetteGuy
quote:
Also, in this instance, your handle isn't helping things
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:00 pm to theenemy
quote:
but as an investigator I just want the basic summary of events and what you perceived and why you justified it before it gets tainted by outside influence.
Your wants are irrelevant don't you get that.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:27 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
Your wants are irrelevant don't you get that.
How are my wants irrelevant?
Ultimately, its my decision to arrest you.
It is my recommendation that the DA will listen to when it comes time to bill you.
I am the one that will explain the evidence and answer questions to the Grand Jury.
And I will be testifying in your trial.
Seems pretty relevant to me.
This post was edited on 2/15/16 at 9:28 pm
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:31 pm to theenemy
Nah, your convenience and wants are irrelevant. Do you not base your decisions on facts and pertenent information or just axes and grudges?
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:39 pm to Chad504boy
quote:
Do you not base your decisions on facts and pertenent information or just axes and grudges?
Touche.
I guess my point is give the investigator some cooperation so his hands aren't tied and you paint him into a corner of having to arrest you.
Again, I support citizens carrying and protecting themselves. And if it is a righteous shoot, work with us a little.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:41 pm to theenemy
quote:
theenemy
Learn to put your ego aside.
You are an agent of the state. The state is the only entity with a monopoly on power.
Average citizens don't get constant adrenaline dumps like an everyday officer. Most hope to God they never have to use their gun.
But if it comes down to it and the person is entirely too emotionally-distraught and hysterical to answer questions, you're going to personally make sure this individual is put behind bars no matter what?
You took an oath to uphold the constitution. And that means everything in it, not "all of it except the 5th."
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:43 pm to bapple
quote:
If you are not accustomed to regularly shooting a living human being, when you are forced to, you will be absolutely hysterical.
This sounds made up.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:45 pm to Chad504boy
Again, it goes along way when you give a basic statement of this is what happened, here is what I perceived, this was my justification in the beginning and that statement never changes.
That goes much farther than in the beginning he said he wasn't saying anything without an attorney and then a week later his attorney released a statement of what he claimed happened.
I am much more apt to sit down with the DA or Grand Jury and claim that I believe you 100% when you cooperate from the beginning.
That goes much farther than in the beginning he said he wasn't saying anything without an attorney and then a week later his attorney released a statement of what he claimed happened.
I am much more apt to sit down with the DA or Grand Jury and claim that I believe you 100% when you cooperate from the beginning.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:45 pm to uway
quote:
This sounds made up.
I'll be happy to listen to your reasoning.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:47 pm to bapple
quote:
ulations - your tactics in an argument are analogous to a kid screaming random things with his hands over his
He is clearly a lawyer that doesn't want to give legal advice to a bunch of Internet yahoos who will blame him and subpoena him if something goes wrong.
So he's a lawyer. What are your qualifications that enable you to give so much advice on these situations?
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:50 pm to bapple
quote:
be happy to listen to your reasoning.
My reasoning that it's not necessarily true that if forced to defend oneself a person is going to be reduced to a puddle of hysterical tears on the sidewalk?
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:52 pm to theenemy
quote:
gain, it goes along way when you give a basic statement of this is what happened, here is what I perceived, this was my justification in the beginning and that statement never changes.
That goes much farther than in the beginning he said he wasn't saying anything without an attorney and then a week later his attorney released a statement of what he claimed happened.
I am much more apt to sit down with the DA or Grand Jury and claim that I believe you 100% when you cooperate from the beginning
Yeah but we saw a video on the internet that said "NEVER TALK TO POLICE", so obviously that's true in all cases.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:54 pm to bapple
It doesn't have anything to do with ego.
Again its about credibility.
and this is completely false. I have never seen a shooter that distraught or hysterical.
Again, no. But I do need a basic statement. If there are no other witnesses I need you to give me some info to justify it as self defense. I need something to report to the higher-ups why I am letting you go home instead of arresting you.
Again its about credibility.
quote:
But if it comes down to it and the person is entirely too emotionally-distraught and hysterical to answer questions
and this is completely false. I have never seen a shooter that distraught or hysterical.
quote:
you're going to personally make sure this individual is put behind bars no matter what?
Again, no. But I do need a basic statement. If there are no other witnesses I need you to give me some info to justify it as self defense. I need something to report to the higher-ups why I am letting you go home instead of arresting you.
This post was edited on 2/15/16 at 9:56 pm
Posted on 2/15/16 at 9:55 pm to uway
quote:
He is clearly a lawyer that doesn't want to give legal advice to a bunch of Internet yahoos who will blame him and subpoena him if something goes wrong.
Are you referring to Alx? He was acting immature and I called it like I saw it.
quote:
What are your qualifications that enable you to give so much advice on these situations?
I'm a Concealed Carry instructor and feel I have trained under many respected professionals to give some advice.
I'll be the first one to admit I'm wrong when presented with credible data. And from the sound of it, it seems the best course of action is to make an initial statement and wait for a lawyer to be present before explaining details. My original thinking was to be completely silent (which is still sometimes the best advice) but hearing from others (especially a highly respected source like MA) it seems this is the best course of action.
I won't pretend to be an expert on law since I am no lawyer but I believe I have some credibility.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:00 pm to uway
quote:
My reasoning that it's not necessarily true that if forced to defend oneself a person is going to be reduced to a puddle of hysterical tears on the sidewalk?
I don't ever use the terms "always" or "never" because there are obviously exceptions.
The vast majority of civilians will experience things they've never felt before if they have to shoot another person. How will each person react? Of course not everyone will react exactly the same way. But from true stories I've read and defensive encounters I've watched, most of the time the victim is pretty emotional and in no position to give a full statement.
The body does crazy things when dumped with adrenaline.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:01 pm to bapple
In grand juries, I've testified in I can tell you that when Jurors ask what was his initial statement. And the answer is you refused to give a statement or not answer any questions without an attorney.
Jurors becomes suspicious and do not like that answer.
Jurors becomes suspicious and do not like that answer.
This post was edited on 2/15/16 at 10:10 pm
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:02 pm to bapple
quote:
Are you referring to Alx? He was acting immature and I called it like I saw it.
I barely visit this board and I knew exactly what Alx was doing. He was calling y'all out for giving bad advice without implicating himself. He's smart like that.
quote:
I'm a Concealed Carry instructor and feel I have trained under many respected professionals to give some advice
Well if I were you, I wouldn't condition my students to believe they were going to fall apart after shooting someone. They might just believe you.
I'm the last person that wants to shoot anyone. It's against my religion, for one, and I have a boatload of kids that I need to be taking care of instead of fighting a court battle or God forbid sitting in prison. However, if I do have to defend my life or theirs, I don't believe I will become hysterical. The shakes from the adrenaline come down? Sure, but not more than that if I can help it. I certainly hope to have zero doubts about the course of action I was forced into.
Posted on 2/15/16 at 10:08 pm to bapple
quote:
The vast majority of civilians will experience things they've never felt before if they have to shoot another person.
17 years, I have never seen or heard of someone being to hysterical to give a statement.
That is a myth. Typically within 20-40 minutes any hysteria if any has passed and the shooter will start rationalizing his/her actions and will be able to give a statement.
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