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Octavius (Augustus) Caesar: Cruel sniveling coward or great Roman (or both)?
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:04 am
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:04 am
What's your take on the guy?
Definitely seems like he was a physical coward. And definitely seems like he was adept at political/power grabbing machinations (but perhaps no more than his contemporaries and probably necessary for survival).
On the other hand, he did kind of usher in the Pax Romana and returned Rome to glory after the mess that was the end of the republic and the civil war period.
Definitely seems like he was a physical coward. And definitely seems like he was adept at political/power grabbing machinations (but perhaps no more than his contemporaries and probably necessary for survival).
On the other hand, he did kind of usher in the Pax Romana and returned Rome to glory after the mess that was the end of the republic and the civil war period.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:09 am to Methuselah
quote:
Octavius (Augustus) Caesar: Great Roman!!!quote:
ushered in the Pax Romana and returned Rome to glory
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:12 am to Methuselah
He's not treated too kindly in I, Claudius, but for his faults he was definitely better than those that came after him. Agirppa was the "man behind the throne" for sure though. Without Agrippa winning the Battle of Actium Augustus isn't victorious, without Agrippa the capitol isn't re-made in marble and splendor, various other engineering defeats aren't accomplished, and no one is afraid of Octavian. Augustus gets the credit, but the real man of history was Agrippa, and people talked trash about Octavian for that reason at the time.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:18 am to Methuselah
Brave. Keep in mind opposing people back then meant your head came off even if you never fought. Ask Cicero's shade.
He was a nobody. 18 years old. Took Caesar's name. At the time that meant the Senate opposed him, meaning Cato, Cassius, Brutus, et al. Then there was Mark Antony. Oh, and the little Pompey had a nice navy and controlled the seas.
He had to beat all of them before he could assume the purple.
As for Agrippa, the sign of a great leader is one who recognizes the talent around him and is NOT threatened by it. Lesser men see such as a threat and not an asset.
He was a nobody. 18 years old. Took Caesar's name. At the time that meant the Senate opposed him, meaning Cato, Cassius, Brutus, et al. Then there was Mark Antony. Oh, and the little Pompey had a nice navy and controlled the seas.
He had to beat all of them before he could assume the purple.
As for Agrippa, the sign of a great leader is one who recognizes the talent around him and is NOT threatened by it. Lesser men see such as a threat and not an asset.
This post was edited on 1/11/16 at 11:23 am
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:26 am to Cooter Davenport
Who was the Greatest Roman?
Marius? Tiberius? Julius Caesar? Gnaeus Pompey? Octavian/Augustus?
Crassus was Julius Caesars Benefactor, the wealthiest man in Rome (perhaps the wealthiest man in history), basically the Kingmaker for Julius Caesar. Interesting but certainly no tthe greatest.
Marius? Tiberius? Julius Caesar? Gnaeus Pompey? Octavian/Augustus?
Crassus was Julius Caesars Benefactor, the wealthiest man in Rome (perhaps the wealthiest man in history), basically the Kingmaker for Julius Caesar. Interesting but certainly no tthe greatest.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:40 am to Methuselah
Augustus Caesar was the greatest of all Roman emperors and is in the discussion for GOAT ruler of any country.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:57 am to Cooter Davenport
Agrippa was definitely a very talented person. Kind of A renaissance man with skills in multiple. Areas . But I don't know if I'v e ver seen him referred to as the Power behind the throne. Maybe something of a mutually beneficial relationship. Between the two but I think Augustus was pulling the strings.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 1:31 pm to Methuselah
Agrippa needed him as he didn't have the clout or birthright to be emperor.
I would put Trajan right up there with Augustus or underneath him.
I would put Trajan right up there with Augustus or underneath him.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 7:12 pm to prplhze2000
quote:
I would put Trajan right up there with Augustus or underneath him.
Both pretty good examples of the effectiveness of the Roman habit of emperors "adopting" their heir as emperor. Though in Trajan's case at least I think the guy that a adopted him was given a little push by the army.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 7:15 pm to Sid in Lakeshore
quote:
Who was the Greatest Roman?
Posted on 1/11/16 at 7:41 pm to Methuselah
Yup. And Marcus screwed it up when he made his actual son the heir
Posted on 1/11/16 at 8:43 pm to Methuselah
He was a political mastermind unlike any the Roman Empire had ever seen and none after ever had the enduring influence that he had. He understood how to hide autocratic rule beneath the guise of Republican principles. He outlasted and out maneuvered the likes of Pompey, Brutus and Cassius in the East, Sextus Pompey on Sicily, and Mark Antony. He chose wisely in making his childhood friend Agrippa the hammer of his reign. Under his reign, the empire reached its apex in expansion and administration and was at an all time high at his death. He wisely, abandoned the quest to expand North of the Rhine into Germanica even though it had been a goal of his and the Senate to expand to the Elbe for 3 decades. Instead, he put focus on strengthening the border territories South of the Rhine and strengthening Romes hold on the Trans-Alpine, Long Haired, and Cis-Alpine Gaul territories.
He was a master at giving the impression that he was a champion of the Republic while ruling as a benevolent dictator.
As far as being a coward, he was definitely interested in his own self preservation especially in his early years and in the heat of battle. He was always "sick" and in a tent in the rear when things got messy. He was no Agrippa or Antony in that regard. His brilliance was in his ability to slow play politics to eventually consolidate power. It did not hurt that he Julius Caesar left him his entire estate. He had the money and wherewithal to pay his legions, Senators, and citizens handsome sums for their loyalty early in his rise to power.
History shows that all of this ended up for the greater good of Rome during and for centuries after his death. I personally think he was the greatest leader Rome ever had.
He was a master at giving the impression that he was a champion of the Republic while ruling as a benevolent dictator.
As far as being a coward, he was definitely interested in his own self preservation especially in his early years and in the heat of battle. He was always "sick" and in a tent in the rear when things got messy. He was no Agrippa or Antony in that regard. His brilliance was in his ability to slow play politics to eventually consolidate power. It did not hurt that he Julius Caesar left him his entire estate. He had the money and wherewithal to pay his legions, Senators, and citizens handsome sums for their loyalty early in his rise to power.
History shows that all of this ended up for the greater good of Rome during and for centuries after his death. I personally think he was the greatest leader Rome ever had.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 9:33 pm to Dick Leverage
Gaius Marius if I had to pick a Roman to run my railroad.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 9:52 pm to Methuselah
The guy with pet rock has my vote
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:11 pm to Ancient Astronaut
Hannibal was the man
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:12 pm to Methuselah
considering who he had to defeat through political gain and actual warfare and the overall health of the empire at the time, I think Augustus has a serious claim to be GOAT roman emperor and is definitely no. 1 in my book.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:28 pm to Methuselah
He was a great man. Simple as that. He took the rather sloppy work begun by Ceaser and turned it into an empire. He was brilliant, considerate, and crafty.
He was kinda a bastard though when it came to family matters. He instituted a bunch of dumb anti-sex laws and even had his own daughter arrested.
He was kinda a bastard though when it came to family matters. He instituted a bunch of dumb anti-sex laws and even had his own daughter arrested.
Posted on 1/11/16 at 11:32 pm to Ancient Astronaut
quote:
The guy with pet rock has my vote
One of history's great mysteries. How the frick did that guy become Emperor?
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