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re: Title IX the reason the USA is a women's but not a men's power...
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:14 pm to StraightCashHomey21
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:14 pm to StraightCashHomey21
quote:
College Hockey and Canadian Jr's are comparable in terms of level of competition.
College soccer is not even close to on par with 18-21 year old Europeans play.
Yep.
0
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:16 pm to SoDakHawk
College soccer will always be part of our model... it just can't be the core of it if we want the quality of our domestic players to keep improving.
Not every kid that spends every afternoon at his local MLS academy is going to get invited to join their upper level youth squad and not all of those kids are going to get offered a contract to join the reserve or 1st team at the club at 17 or 18...
College soccer is a prime destination for those players that are good but not good enough to go pro immediately. In time, the college soccer players may still make up the backbone of most MLS clubs but the homegrown stars on the teams will be guys that came up through the academy system and went pro right out of high school.
The biggest thing is to keep moving further and further away from the pay-to-play, get little Johnny from the suburbs a college scholarship model.
Not every kid that spends every afternoon at his local MLS academy is going to get invited to join their upper level youth squad and not all of those kids are going to get offered a contract to join the reserve or 1st team at the club at 17 or 18...
College soccer is a prime destination for those players that are good but not good enough to go pro immediately. In time, the college soccer players may still make up the backbone of most MLS clubs but the homegrown stars on the teams will be guys that came up through the academy system and went pro right out of high school.
The biggest thing is to keep moving further and further away from the pay-to-play, get little Johnny from the suburbs a college scholarship model.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:19 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
I'm getting really tired of repeating it's not about college players...
You're the one who added Title IX to your OP...
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:26 pm to MustangReb
quote:
Not every kid that spends every afternoon at his local MLS academy is going to get invited to join their upper level youth squad and not all of those kids are going to get offered a contract to join the reserve or 1st team at the club at 17 or 18...
Then like most players the writing is on the wall. Problem is we need a proper league structure where those wash outs play in a lower division against grown arse men like they do in Europe and not against a bunch of 19 year olds which hinders development.
The more kids we put in places like England or Germany the better bc if they don't pan out at their overseas academies they have way more options to future their careers than if they were in the states. Which comes down to holding an EU work permit. They have the option to play for lower leagues in Europe or a shot a the MLS back home if they choose. Much better options than playing college ball.
quote:
In time, the college soccer players may still make up the backbone of most MLS clubs
lets fricking hope not
or the league will be stuck in neutral or go backwards in terms of quality.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:31 pm to TN Bhoy
quote:
You're the one who added Title IX to your OP...
And I explained my stance, many times in this thread. Many times. And there were still many posts written about how I was talking about "college players" and not "increased participation".
That really can't be argued away.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:37 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
And there were still many posts written about how I was talking about "college players" and not "increased participation".
The amount of participation isn't the problem.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 4:44 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
And we have told you many times the participation that it will provide is not the level of participation that will help our national team. The quaintly of player will not remotely be the same thing. 50,000 more players all not being of a level to play at a sufficient level does not make us a soccer power.
World class soccer is a completely different level for men and women right now because other nations do not develope their female talent liketjey do their men.
Like I said in another post - the biggest ways to increase the right kind of participation are a combination of the professional academies and the mls having career earnings like the other major sports. College is not sufficient nor will it breed the caliber of player necessary.
World class soccer is a completely different level for men and women right now because other nations do not develope their female talent liketjey do their men.
Like I said in another post - the biggest ways to increase the right kind of participation are a combination of the professional academies and the mls having career earnings like the other major sports. College is not sufficient nor will it breed the caliber of player necessary.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:21 pm to Tigerstark
quote:
And we have told you many times the participation that it will provide is not the level of participation that will help our national team
And I don't buy that. Because I don't agree that participation is evenly distributed across this country. Or that the best athletes possible are being enticed to either start playing soccer, or keep playing it once they start.
Once again, if men's soccer is available at state universities within a given state, or even a given region, I hold it's more likely that quality athletes will not only start playing, but keep playing.
Because that's what happened with women's soccer after Title IX. This country wasn't giving women's soccer our best shot before Title IX was implemented.
And we're still not giving men's soccer our best shot. And I don't think anyone can argue that.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:24 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
Once again, if men's soccer is available at state universities within a given state, or even a given region, I hold it's more likely that quality athletes will not only start playing, but keep playing.
Gets mad that other posters keep talking about college soccer. Keeps talking about college soccer.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:29 pm to TN Bhoy
So what part of "start playing, but keep playing." are you not getting?
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:37 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
So what part of "start playing, but keep playing." are you not getting?
What part of one needing to get on a club and be taught the fundamentals of the sport when four years old, at least four times a week for 11 months of the year, and play it as much as possible when not training, do you not get?
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 5:38 pm
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:42 pm to Dandy Lion
And what part of the likelihood of that happening with increased participation and investment on the part of the parents are you not understanding?
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:49 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
So what part of "start playing, but keep playing." are you not getting?
Here is the problem. Soccer is the way out of poverty sport for the world. We make kids who are good here pay to play on club level. In other countries the kids don't pay, it is all covered by the "club". My son plays on a club team and it is reasonable, but the club recruits kids from Honduras, Guatemala and Mexico as well. Their parents have no concept of paying to play. It is a hardship for them to spend 800.00. Other clubs in NOLA are over 3,000.00.
Until we get over the college model, we will struggle to produce more than a handful of truly world class players.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:49 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
investment on the part of the parents
They would have to found a club and fund professionals who know what they´re doing (they´re aren´t that many here to begin with).
Then, some of these kids will leave the country in their early to mid teens (if good).
Where´s the beneficial impetus in this? The shitty ones go on to play at a college on a semi or full ride?
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 5:51 pm
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:52 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
they´re aren´t that many here to begin with)
Stop, you're making my case for me.
quote:
here´s the impetus in this? The shitty ones go on to play at a college on a semi or full ride?
At the beginning. Not at the end. Not that I think a men's soccer team at LSU would be anything but a good thing, and have a great following.
Reread what I've already posted, many times.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:57 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
quote:
Stop, you're making my case for me.
I don´t think I am. From where are you going to get them?
quote:
have a great following
this is all fine and dandy but...
Will they be competitive? NO.
quote:
At the beginning. Not at the end.
Pray tell, what happens at ´the end´?
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:58 pm to TigersOfGeauxld
I just read all 10 pages of this discussion.
I am a high school soccer coach, and I believe that a stronger college soccer system would help soccer in the USA. I'm not the only one who thinks so.
But the important part here is that college soccer as it is currently construed cannot help soccer in the US.
Three key differences that make college soccer more viable here than anywhere:
1) Fan support - and therefore financial support - for college athletics is uniquely American. Nowhere in Europe do they get 50,000 out to watch a college sporting event.
2) Financial viability of free training for elites. There is just not enough money in soccer in the USA right now to make this feasible. Ajax and Arsenal and Chelsea and Real Madrid can do it because they have the revenue to do so, but that sort of revenue does not exist at Sporting KC or Houston Dynamo, etc.
3) The facilities at colleges are superior to everything that a soccer player could experience shy of an MLS club in the USA.
But if we just add more programs to what we have now, it will be ineffective. If we change it - remove practice restrictions, lengthen the season, increase the quality of coaching, etc., then it can be useful.
I am a high school soccer coach, and I believe that a stronger college soccer system would help soccer in the USA. I'm not the only one who thinks so.
But the important part here is that college soccer as it is currently construed cannot help soccer in the US.
Three key differences that make college soccer more viable here than anywhere:
1) Fan support - and therefore financial support - for college athletics is uniquely American. Nowhere in Europe do they get 50,000 out to watch a college sporting event.
2) Financial viability of free training for elites. There is just not enough money in soccer in the USA right now to make this feasible. Ajax and Arsenal and Chelsea and Real Madrid can do it because they have the revenue to do so, but that sort of revenue does not exist at Sporting KC or Houston Dynamo, etc.
3) The facilities at colleges are superior to everything that a soccer player could experience shy of an MLS club in the USA.
But if we just add more programs to what we have now, it will be ineffective. If we change it - remove practice restrictions, lengthen the season, increase the quality of coaching, etc., then it can be useful.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:59 pm to glassman
quote:
Until we get over the college model, we will struggle to produce more than a handful of truly world class players
Welp, the fact is, we more problems than just identifying the best players and getting them trained. Our problems start with the best possible players not playing soccer to begin with.
You have to start somewhere. And the trickle down effect from more college soccer programs begetting more high school and grammar school programs, etc was what led to the women's success.
I maintain that when you know you have a next level to play at, you're more likely to not only start playing, but keep playing.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 5:59 pm to Tiger Phil
quote:
I am a high school soccer coach, and I believe that a stronger college soccer system would help soccer in the USA.
I hope you stop being the former then.
Posted on 7/6/15 at 6:03 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
Pray tell, what happens at ´the end´?
Not the point of the thread.
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