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re: Documentary: "League of Denial: The NFL's Concussion Crisis"
Posted on 3/24/15 at 4:32 am to AmosMosesAndTwins
Posted on 3/24/15 at 4:32 am to AmosMosesAndTwins
quote:
And of course the NFL is revenue conscious, as any sustainable business should be. It's not a fricking public service.
Of course the nfl is not charity. We are not talking about charity vs profit. That is not the issue here. The issue is the nfl attitude towards concussion and their belief of profit at any cost. The leauge knew of the dangers for years, and their action indicated that they didn't care otherwise.
Imagine if Toyota knew about a faulty break system in their cars and refuse to let their customers know about it just to maximize profits. Wouldn't you be appalled?
Posted on 3/24/15 at 9:06 am to PeteRose
quote:
This was after the NFL had a big meeting about concussion. I believe it was around 2002. The Dr who did research on Mike Webster and Terry Long's brain was not invited to the meeting. This was after the Dr published 2 articles to the top neurological newsletter in America stating the affects of these linemen bashing their heads during years of playing.
so
1. the information WAS public, so the NFL couldn't hide it
2. the NFL didn't invite him to their conference, so they were ignorant of his work also
you're destroying a case against the NFL and any argument that they hid anything (or could hide anything, since it was, you know, public)
quote:
There was another collective bargaining meeting years later where a wife of a former player tried to attend in his place because he couldn't feed/cloth himself. Goddell denied her entrance into the meeting.
that's an issue with the NFLPA and not the NFL
the NFLPA represents players, not the NFL
Posted on 3/24/15 at 9:09 am to PeteRose
quote:
After watching this, you probably wouldn't want to give your hard earn money to the NFL.
Everyone knew there were risks.
And, even if somehow they didn't understand it completely, they certainly do now. I'll continue to throw my money at the best sporting product on the planet.
Posted on 3/24/15 at 9:10 am to PeteRose
quote:
The leauge knew of the dangers for years, and their action indicated that they didn't care otherwise.
the NFLPA also knew (or should have known) of the dangers for years and didn't care
i've asked you this question but you ignored it: who is responsible for protecting the players: the NFL or its union?
quote:
Imagine if Toyota knew about a faulty break system in their cars and refuse to let their customers know about it just to maximize profits. Wouldn't you be appalled?
this is not applicable
this is a more apt comparison
imagine if Toyota and a company engaged in a long bargaining process for cars. both parties knew that the cars may have problems with the regional terrain of operation of the company, but both parties go ahead with the contract. when the cars break down, the public blames Toyota and ignores the fact that the company not only participated in this bargain, but knew of the issues while bargaining.
Posted on 3/24/15 at 10:13 am to SlowFlowPro
Have you seen the documentary? I don't think you watched the doc. If you did, you wouldn't say the NFL was ignorant of his work. I think your ignorant of the whole documentary. You talk like you know what your saying but in reality you don't. Nfl Drs reviewed his work and asked him to retracted it. Usually only tine a medical gets asked to be retracted is for fraud or plagerism.
I guess sometimes some people just like to argue for the sake of appearing "smart" even when there evidence and facts against them. But keep on arguing on something that you haven't watched makes your points say irrelevant.
I guess sometimes some people just like to argue for the sake of appearing "smart" even when there evidence and facts against them. But keep on arguing on something that you haven't watched makes your points say irrelevant.
Posted on 3/24/15 at 10:26 am to SlowFlowPro
You argue just for the sake of it. Just watch the documentary and come back. It's pretty bad.
Posted on 3/24/15 at 10:38 am to cas4t
quote:
You argue just for the sake of it.
no
most people are ignorant of the issues and rely on biased emotional-irrational arguments made by anti-NFL parties
they don't want to get into employment law, the CBA, etc because that's not juicy and creates rules that prevents the proliferation of the victim complex
quote:
It's pretty bad.
again
1. who represents the players: the NFL or NFLPA? did the documentary discuss this?
2. were the studies that the players rely upon available to the public?
Posted on 3/24/15 at 10:40 am to cas4t
I have no dog in the fight but 98 percent of documentaries are extremely biased to a certain view, so watching a documentary on this isn't exactly some sort of end all be all to an argument
Posted on 3/24/15 at 10:41 am to PeteRose
quote:
Have you seen the documentary? I don't think you watched the doc.
i already said i haven't watched the doc. i've read many of the legal pleadings and lots of scholarly articles about the law
quote:
If you did, you wouldn't say the NFL was ignorant of his work.
it was public. why didn't the NFLPA use this work to protect its union members?
quote:
Nfl Drs reviewed his work and asked him to retracted it. Usually only tine a medical gets asked to be retracted is for fraud or plagerism.
and did he retract it? no. so that point is without merit
quote:
I guess sometimes some people just like to argue for the sake of appearing "smart" even when there evidence and facts against them.
evidence and facts?
you've failed to answer simple questions. i'll ask again
1. which organization represented the players, the NFL or NFLPA?
2. were the studies publicly available?
the answer to those questions involves "facts" and "evidence" but you have refused to answer them. why?
Posted on 3/24/15 at 10:46 am to wildtigercat93
quote:
I have no dog in the fight but 98 percent of documentaries are extremely biased to a certain view, so watching a documentary on this isn't exactly some sort of end all be all to an argument
i don't really care, but people are very ignorant to the real issues and get caught up in the emotional-irrational "points" of anti-NFL people
they refuse to look at the total picture. the biggest example of this ignorance involves the NFLPA. all you hear is NFL NFL NFL but the NFL doesn't represent the players. the NFLPA, however, did. ignoring employment law, if there is an organization to point the finger at, it's the NFLPA. that's not sexy, though, and it requires the players to blame themselves and their own reps. the public doesn't want to do that. they want a witch hunt!
*ETA: let me also say that i think the right legal decision is to dismiss these claims, but an appeals court may disagree. it's a complex legal issue that will likely be litigated up to the USSC if necessary. that is the real argument though, and not some biased hitpiece by frontline
This post was edited on 3/24/15 at 11:00 am
Posted on 3/24/15 at 11:13 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
the NFL didn't invite him to their conference, so they were ignorant of his work also
Dude watch the fricking documentary. They were not ignorant to his work. They did everything they possibly could to discredit him for years. Then when he was asked to study Junior Seau's Brain years later they contacted Seau's son and convinced him not to let him study it. This happened literally while the doctor was extracting it.
Regardless of where you stand on the situation there is no way anyone that watches the doc won't realize how fricked up and shady the NFL was/is in the handling of the situation.
ETA, and yes, of course the doc will be slanted one way. However, it doesn't change the facts. Goodell not letting that women into the meeting was appalling. And that happened and is on video. The craziest part is when the NFL docs, even after being presented with all the evidence, were admitting that CTE can be caused by Boxing and steeple chasing but there was no way it could be caused by football.
This post was edited on 3/24/15 at 11:21 am
Posted on 3/24/15 at 11:25 am to Tigersfan
quote:
Regardless of where you stand on the situation there is no way anyone that watches the doc won't realize how fricked up and shady the NFL was/is in the handling of the situation.
and what about the organization that actually represented the players?
quote:
The craziest part is when the NFL docs, even after being presented with all the evidence, were admitting that CTE can be caused by Boxing and steeple chasing but there was no way it could be caused by football.
that's how experts work. that's not an indictment of the NFL. what did the NFLPA's experts say?
Posted on 3/24/15 at 11:31 am to SlowFlowPro
For e ery expert there is an equal and opposite expert
Posted on 3/24/15 at 11:34 am to SlowFlowPro
Oh my God dude watch the fricking thing. The title of the thread is
Documentary: "League of Denial: The NFL's Concussion Crisis"
Yet you are admitting to not watching it while at the same time leading the way with your opinions. Issues dude, get them resolved.
Documentary: "League of Denial: The NFL's Concussion Crisis"
Yet you are admitting to not watching it while at the same time leading the way with your opinions. Issues dude, get them resolved.
Posted on 3/24/15 at 11:36 am to Tigersfan
the documentary obviously left out important elementary information. it seems people would rather be ignorant and use a biased source as the gospel than actually read up on the issues they're discussing (ignorantly)
Posted on 3/24/15 at 11:42 am to SlowFlowPro
not sure whether to or just
Posted on 3/24/15 at 1:22 pm to BilJ
I remember in 2001(?) when SI did an article about former athletes struggling. Some of the stories were so chilling. Guys who couldn't stand long, hold their daughters, etc.
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