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Message
Posted on 12/25/14 at 1:02 pm to tigerfan88
quote:
The bible as you know it was compiled, translated, and edited by members of the church hundreds and thousands of years after Christ. Do we really have to go into how corrupt men of the cloth can be?? Jesus may have been as amazing and inspirational and holy as the gospels say, but we have ample proof that the men who followed him were far from that. And they're the ones who chose what words you're reading. All human men, all with an agenda.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 1:10 pm to BGSB
Well, I read this whole thread this afternoon when I ran across it after lunch. I'd share a few thoughts.
First off, there's a lot that you have to take on faith in the mainstream scientific explanation of the why and how of anything being here. For this universe to be so finely tuned for sentient life pretty much requires an infinite number of universes for that fine tuning to appear. None of them ever have or can be observed, if they exist. There are innumerable examples like this throughout this theory. An atheist who demands pictures or objective evidence is being hypocritical when they do so.
The statement was also made about the trustworthiness of the bible. You made the case for the original manuscripts, but you made a jump from that based on an assumption-translations ARE suspect. There are no word for word translations from the greek/hebrew/aramaic to the English that can be made. It only takes the change in translation of a few words in important places to change the meaning you will get from that text. I'm a staunch bible believer, but not of the translations. In my view, the mainstream of Christianity has gotten some things wrong because of this. That's opened the door for criticism from atheists, which makes it harder for people to see the true light of scripture, and where science is actually pointing to. It's becoming more and more obvious to them that this universe is a created thing, with an intelligence behind it. They are careful to posit that intelligence as 'alien' or 'higher' or even human beings of the future instead of using the word that most theists would use-God.
First off, there's a lot that you have to take on faith in the mainstream scientific explanation of the why and how of anything being here. For this universe to be so finely tuned for sentient life pretty much requires an infinite number of universes for that fine tuning to appear. None of them ever have or can be observed, if they exist. There are innumerable examples like this throughout this theory. An atheist who demands pictures or objective evidence is being hypocritical when they do so.
The statement was also made about the trustworthiness of the bible. You made the case for the original manuscripts, but you made a jump from that based on an assumption-translations ARE suspect. There are no word for word translations from the greek/hebrew/aramaic to the English that can be made. It only takes the change in translation of a few words in important places to change the meaning you will get from that text. I'm a staunch bible believer, but not of the translations. In my view, the mainstream of Christianity has gotten some things wrong because of this. That's opened the door for criticism from atheists, which makes it harder for people to see the true light of scripture, and where science is actually pointing to. It's becoming more and more obvious to them that this universe is a created thing, with an intelligence behind it. They are careful to posit that intelligence as 'alien' or 'higher' or even human beings of the future instead of using the word that most theists would use-God.
This post was edited on 12/25/14 at 1:12 pm
Posted on 12/25/14 at 1:17 pm to tobythetiger
quote:
You made the case for the original manuscripts
I think you meant this in response to another poster, although it came as a response to me
Posted on 12/25/14 at 1:27 pm to BGSB
I was speaking to the poster who posted the list of the manuscripts, you are correct. Didn't feel like going back and quoting everything and everyone who said various things throughout this thread. I knew the post was going to get long anyway, and for most people on these boards, long is unreadable :)
But I did have some further comments to you, which is why I hit the 'reply' key on your particular post. Since you replied, I'll touch on some of that. There's a lot of harmony between what you describe and what I believe I see. I have a slightly different take on it though. First off, I do not believe in a fall-this universe is a womb for sentient life, and it is formed to create that. The bible is all about that, in reality. The light of God is in us all, and it is our selfish desires that cause the projection you speak about, and traps us within the limitations we attribute to the body. That's 'sin', and we all have it. The darkness anyone projects into the world is a product of their own making.
When the apostle Paul spoke to the Athenians, he told them that God had created man to search for Him. Everything serves that purpose and drives us towards answering that question. The light of God we sometimes see in others draws us too, or they light they see in us draws others, if we get out of the way of it.
But I did have some further comments to you, which is why I hit the 'reply' key on your particular post. Since you replied, I'll touch on some of that. There's a lot of harmony between what you describe and what I believe I see. I have a slightly different take on it though. First off, I do not believe in a fall-this universe is a womb for sentient life, and it is formed to create that. The bible is all about that, in reality. The light of God is in us all, and it is our selfish desires that cause the projection you speak about, and traps us within the limitations we attribute to the body. That's 'sin', and we all have it. The darkness anyone projects into the world is a product of their own making.
When the apostle Paul spoke to the Athenians, he told them that God had created man to search for Him. Everything serves that purpose and drives us towards answering that question. The light of God we sometimes see in others draws us too, or they light they see in us draws others, if we get out of the way of it.
This post was edited on 12/25/14 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 12/25/14 at 1:32 pm to GreatLakesTiger24
you better thank me for bumping your thread bucko
Posted on 12/25/14 at 1:35 pm to CaptainPanic
How do you know don't infer that they are afraid of dying because you are, go find one and ask them. No need to report back I don't care for all you know they could all live fufulling lives & be fine with it.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 1:49 pm to tobythetiger
quote:
But I did have some further comments to you, which is why I hit the 'reply' key on your particular post. Since you replied, I'll touch on some of that. There's a lot of harmony between what you describe and what I believe I see. I have a slightly different take on it though. First off, I do not believe in a fall-this universe is a womb for sentient life, and it is formed to create that. The bible is all about that, in reality. The light of God is in us all, and it is our selfish desires that cause the projection you speak about, and traps us within the limitations we attribute to the body. That's 'sin', and we all have it. The darkness anyone projects into the world is a product of their own making.
Okay, well, I think we are all on the same journey, just at different points along the way
Posted on 12/25/14 at 2:32 pm to windshieldman
quote:
Obviously not 100% of athiest care but by what I read in these threads and how literally all athiest I know is how I come that conclusion. A football discussion with them and they will turn it into how I shouldnt believe in a God. I even have coworkers like that. I never bring up religion in a conversation and honestly try to avoid it for the most part.
Maybe you just know a lot of annoying people. The same type of annoying people exist on the religious side that want to shove it in your face every chance they get. I never bring up religion or lack thereof in normal conversation. I know lots of people as well who do though on both sides.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 3:20 pm to tobythetiger
quote:
For this universe to be so finely tuned for sentient life pretty much requires an infinite number of universes for that fine tuning to appear.
Well this isn't true on almost any level so....
Posted on 12/25/14 at 3:30 pm to windshieldman
quote:
agree, I have retarded friends. I'm prob retarded to them and to most of y'all. It's ok
That conversation literally never comes up in my groups, and there are several atheists
quote:
Tldr version, Christians don't care if your athiest. Athiest can't stand Christians don't care that they are athiest.
Lol
This post was edited on 12/25/14 at 3:32 pm
Posted on 12/25/14 at 3:47 pm to tobythetiger
quote:
It's becoming more and more obvious to them that this universe is a created thing, with an intelligence behind it. They are careful to posit that intelligence as 'alien' or 'higher' or even human beings of the future instead of using the word that most theists would use-God.
Please show me where mainstream science is saying this. Thanks in advance.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 3:49 pm to Dam Guide
quote:
Maybe you just know a lot of annoying people
Annoying people, we all know one. The person in the group of friends or coworkers who is so pessimistic that nobody wants to be around. The person that even when you agree with about a subject they will still say they're "right" and "you're wrong". They can't figure out why almost nobody likes them. Most of the time the person has strong religious beliefs.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 3:49 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
That conversation literally never comes up in my groups, and there are several atheists
Well, it does in mine, although I"m married with kids so I don't hang out with my old friends as much. The other day one of mine posted on FB about how he doesn't see anything wrong with him as an athiest celebrating Christmas, though, he said Xmas and explained why he left Christ out. Not one Christian cared nor responded, it was just a bunch of athiest responding to his post, when I say a bunch, I mean 2 or 3. I wanted to IM him and tell him nobody cares if you put Xmas instead of Christmas, and nobody cares that you are an athiest celebrating Christmas, but I didnt' b/c this dude can carry on a conversation for years without stopping. I rarely even text him anymore. Again, they are good people, and I enjoyed hanging with all of them, but they are the one's that have fits with me being a Christian, I tell them all the time I don't care they arent religious and its none of my business.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 3:49 pm to Uncle Stu
quote:
both parties end up in the exact same place when they die - nothingness
Quite a bold statement. Prove it.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 4:17 pm to tobythetiger
quote:
It's becoming more and more obvious to them that this universe is a created thing, with an intelligence behind it. They are careful to posit that intelligence as 'alien' or 'higher' or even human beings of the future instead of using the word that most theists would use-God.
The entire post is bullshite, this is just the cherry on top
Posted on 12/25/14 at 4:21 pm to windshieldman
quote:
I"m married with kids so I don't hang out with my old friends as much.
quote:
s, though, he said Xmas and explained why he left Christ out. Not one Christian cared nor responded, it was just a bunch of athiest responding to his post, when I say a bunch, I mean 2 or 3. I wanted to IM him and tell him nobody cares if you put Xmas instead of Christmas, and nobody cares that you are an athiest celebrating Christmas
Imagine it like people with kids talking about their kids and how people without kids don't give a damn about their kids. It pretty much works the same from Christians regarding atheists and vice versa.
You obviously cared enough about that guys Facebook post to use it as an example and coming complain about it on here.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 4:29 pm to genuineLSUtiger
We now know, since Darwin and that other thing, evidence by the ton, that there was never a garden of eden. There was absolutely no Adam and Eve. No apple or snake.
So, there was no original sin. There was no eating of the forbidden apple. No salvation necessary. The whole tale collapses on itself.
Mike dropped.
So, there was no original sin. There was no eating of the forbidden apple. No salvation necessary. The whole tale collapses on itself.
Mike dropped.
Posted on 12/25/14 at 4:34 pm to Amazing Moves
There is nothing in the Bible that wasn't already known by locals of the time. Nothing about mathematics. Nothing about electricity, the universe, nothing.
Instead, it is chock full of ghosts, angels, spirits, blood sacrifice and other violent carnage.
How many doves is the women supposed to release during her period?
Who can believe it? Who would want it to be true? Thankfully, there is not a single shred of evidence suggesting it might be real.
Instead, it is chock full of ghosts, angels, spirits, blood sacrifice and other violent carnage.
How many doves is the women supposed to release during her period?
Who can believe it? Who would want it to be true? Thankfully, there is not a single shred of evidence suggesting it might be real.
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