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re: OT Medical folks - vasovagal syncope
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:35 am to tiger114
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:35 am to tiger114
I understand the stress and worry of not knowing. My son did this once and hit his head very hard on the edge of the bathroom cabinet. A zillion tests later and he got the same diagnosis as your daughter. The docs said it was something he would likely grow out of. Who knows? I hope everything is fine with your daughter.
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Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:36 am to Pinetar
Sorry you are going through this. Nothing worse than worrying about your kids health. Hope you find answers soon and prayers sent for a healthy family
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:40 am to SpicyStacy
I'm going to follow up on the absence seizure info and push the neuro on this some more. a couple of things fit, but a couple don't.
She has had two episodes when she was standing up and fell to the ground both times. When she has the episodes, her eyes roll back in her head and her eyelids flutter. They last maybe 15 seconds, and she feels like she is waking up from sleeping when she comes to.
She has had two episodes when she was standing up and fell to the ground both times. When she has the episodes, her eyes roll back in her head and her eyelids flutter. They last maybe 15 seconds, and she feels like she is waking up from sleeping when she comes to.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:44 am to Pinetar
Blood sugar?
Hypoglycemic?
Hypoglycemic?
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:44 am to Pinetar
Very well could be a seizure. I have simple partial seizures in high school that would cause me to pass out sometimes. Even though I didn't pass out at every seizure, I still passed out a lot i.e. 2x a day. Does you daughter get any strange feelings right before she passes out?
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:46 am to BROffshoreTigersWife
Have them look at inner ear... Can cause severe unbalance.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:51 am to SaltyMcKracker
she says she doesn't get any indication that it is coming, and the ones that I have witnessed, she doesn't give any warning that it is coming. However, the first time it happened, she wasn't feeling right and told her classmates to go get a teacher. The other time it happened when she was standing, she was walking to the teacher's desk to tell her she didn't feel right. But on other ones, she has been sitting upright or laying back when her eyes will roll back and her head will drop without any warning. She has an uncle who has epilepsy (and we have told all of the doctors this) so we have some experience with the "aura" or feeling that many experience before a seizure. Other than what she describes as pressure on her chest and feeling like her heart is racing, there is no forewarning. (She was complaining of the pressure on her chest and feeling like her heart was racing when she was hooked up to the EKG and it was showing everything normal).
all test so far have been "normal." they told us no abnormal heart rhythm or other indications on EKG and all blood tests so far have been normal.
all test so far have been "normal." they told us no abnormal heart rhythm or other indications on EKG and all blood tests so far have been normal.
This post was edited on 2/8/14 at 9:54 am
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:55 am to Pinetar
quote:
We live in Metairie and all treatment so far has been at Ochsner.
try and see dr diane africk, neurologist
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:57 am to Pinetar
I work at ochsner and we put loop recorders in more people, especially healthy teenagers, than you might think. Drs Patricia Thomas and Scott macicek (sp.) are the pediatric electrophysiology doctors and are great. I work with them a good bit and would take my child to see them of I had the same problem.
Also, just a thought, but if your child is an athlete and is prescribed a beta blocker they may not want to take it before being active as it will not allow her heart rate to increase to allow for a higher cardiac output.
Also, just a thought, but if your child is an athlete and is prescribed a beta blocker they may not want to take it before being active as it will not allow her heart rate to increase to allow for a higher cardiac output.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 9:58 am to Pinetar
Eye fluttering is common with absense seizures...
They could be partial and stay conscious and talking while having them as well. The only way to diagnose it is an eeg. They will ask her to be sleep deprived since it usually irritates the brain... it may take multiple eegs for spikes or irregularities to show up... however, if it is absense, it will show up doing hyperventalation exercise in the lab
They could be partial and stay conscious and talking while having them as well. The only way to diagnose it is an eeg. They will ask her to be sleep deprived since it usually irritates the brain... it may take multiple eegs for spikes or irregularities to show up... however, if it is absense, it will show up doing hyperventalation exercise in the lab
This post was edited on 2/8/14 at 10:00 am
Posted on 2/8/14 at 10:00 am to Pinetar
quote:
She has had two episodes when she was standing up and fell to the ground both times. When she has the episodes, her eyes roll back in her head and her eyelids flutter. They last maybe 15 seconds, and she feels like she is waking up from sleeping when she comes to.
If interested here are all of my "cynical a-hole ER nurse" evaluations. You can use them if you want. But first the monitor is a good "must do" test. She had an echo which was normal. GREAT! You don't want an Echocardiogram to give you an "answer" they are all bad. Holter monitoring will probably be a tease. As while wearing them not ONE DAMN thing will happen. This is a common thing even with old people having runs of PSVT and AT. The heart just won't do it while being monitored.
Now for my "a-hole" tests you can perform. If she has an episode and falls with no injury? Be suspicious. People who pass out hit HARD! They don't ease to the ground. And being her Dad you may not be able to do this. But a forearm "drop test" can be performed when she passes out. Hold her arm over her face/forehead and let it go. If she hits her face. Real deal. If her arm manages to glide over her face to the top of her head be suspicious.
arse I say. These are a-hole ER nurse tests. We perform them regularly. But they are never MY CHILD. It goes against ALL instincts to scoop them up and hold your child.
And again if this is all emotional don't dismiss it. Don't stigmatize it. Her needing counseling sucks to think about. But so does a pacemaker, neuro disorder, or cardiomyopathy for God's sake.
Good luck sir.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 10:08 am to Pinetar
quote:
They last maybe 15 seconds, and she feels like she is waking up from sleeping when she comes to
If it is a seizure, the after part is what is called the postictal state. Normally they are very very tired and sometimes dazed and confused.
LSU I know exactly what you are getting at. Sometimes it may be psychological and the parent does not want to believe that there is something going on "like that" with their kid. Instead of getting them the proper care, with a therapist or counselor for their emotions/depression, they want to believe it is something physical going on with them (likely because of embarrassment, etc). Not saying this is your situation OP, I think LSU is just encouraging you to get whatever proper care may be necessary for your child
Posted on 2/8/14 at 10:15 am to magicman534
quote:
Scott macicek
this is who she is supposed to see but it could be two weeks before they can get her in for the tilt table.
Wannabe- My older child has a myriad of psychological issues, and we're pretty tied into that. She has a pretty good bruise from the first time she fell. If she is faking this, then we need to pull her out of her current school and get her over to NOCCA without delay. She has basically no tolerance for pain, and I've done an arm pinch when she had one episode with no reaction at all. If it's psycho-somatic, that's a whole new issue, but we can't find any indication that she is faking these episodes. (And I was one of those full denial parents with my older child but now understand that you've got to realize that you're kid may be the one with a screw loose.)
Posted on 2/8/14 at 10:21 am to Pinetar
quote:
She has a pretty good bruise from the first time she fell. If she is faking this, then we need to pull her out of her current school and get her over to NOCCA without delay.
Yep. Hard to fake a bruise.
What are ages of these kids? And age differences? Older sibling got or gets a lot of attention? But that is reaching and cliche'.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 10:39 am to Pinetar
Pine, I am no medical professional and won't profess to know anything about this. I can say last year, the wife of one of my coworkers had exactly the same kind of theing going on...she was passing out at work a couple of times a day and there was no apparent reason for it...
she went through what sounds like the same bunch of medical tests that your daughter is going through (including wearing the heart monitor at home)all of which pretty much found nothing wrong...at that point, it really seems to become kind of a trial and error game...
ultimately, they recommended that she push fluids every day and prescribed a beta blocker
and she also ultimately changed jobs to a much better work environment (less stress)...
it may have been one of those things or the combination of all, but she hasn't had a problem since...
she went through what sounds like the same bunch of medical tests that your daughter is going through (including wearing the heart monitor at home)all of which pretty much found nothing wrong...at that point, it really seems to become kind of a trial and error game...
ultimately, they recommended that she push fluids every day and prescribed a beta blocker
and she also ultimately changed jobs to a much better work environment (less stress)...
it may have been one of those things or the combination of all, but she hasn't had a problem since...
Posted on 2/8/14 at 10:49 am to LSU alum wannabe
kids are 16 and 14. You always want to think that you don't give more attention to one than the other, and we've had conversations with the younger one about this. I guess it's always possible, but we do everything we can to stay conscious of this.
Wife and I both go to her games. I generally drive her to/from practices and other events. When we have issues with the older child (episodes of anxiety/depression), I am generally the one who deals with him one-on-one and my wife will take the 14 year old in another room to keep her away from it.
Wife and I both go to her games. I generally drive her to/from practices and other events. When we have issues with the older child (episodes of anxiety/depression), I am generally the one who deals with him one-on-one and my wife will take the 14 year old in another room to keep her away from it.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 10:53 am to Pinetar
First, work the cardiology fellow who posted he was interested in helping. He will have the best advice/guidance.
If they think it is "electrical" i.e. arrhythmia issues that haven't been seen on ECG, then get to Houston Methodist and have them see your daughter.
A Holter monitor may also be a good idea to ask the cardiologist about.
Good luck.
If they think it is "electrical" i.e. arrhythmia issues that haven't been seen on ECG, then get to Houston Methodist and have them see your daughter.
A Holter monitor may also be a good idea to ask the cardiologist about.
Good luck.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 11:10 am to Pinetar
quote:
(episodes of anxiety/depression)
Sounds similar. But you know as well as anyone it is a diagnosis of exception. Have to rule out a lot of other things before you send a child/parent out the door to counseling. Sounds like your docs are sending you down the right path so far.
Posted on 2/8/14 at 11:10 am to Pinetar
quote:
My older child has a myriad of psychological issues
That and stress has to play a part in it all whether causing or just aggravating an issue
Athlete? What sport?
Eating habits? Anorexia or bulimia could be the issue. When things seem out of control many young people control their eating
Posted on 2/8/14 at 11:16 am to LSU alum wannabe
quote:
ETA cardiology fellow please explain P-waves I am too tired.
P-waves on the EKG represent the electrical activity of the atria depolarizing ,i.e. Your native pacemaker in the heart you were born with. This impulse then reaches the bottom chambers, the ventricles, to cause the actual heart beat/ pulse. If nothing was getting through from top to bottom then they had complete AV node block (connection from top to bottom wasnt working)
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