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Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:13 am to udtiger
quote:
You think member of the US military would act in similar fashion towards citizens?
The national guard at Kent State said they fired after they heard what they thought were shots, so you've got that precedent.
After Katrina, were there any Louisianians who refused to give up their arms when the police wanted them? If a policeman showed up at my house with a warrant to confiscate a gun(s), I'd give it to him and hope he doesn't know about the other ones I have. I just can't see any rationality with a fantasy of having a running gun battle with the police or the US military. You're picking a fight with someone bigger and better than you.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:16 am to son of arlo
quote:
After Katrina, were there any Louisianians who refused to give up their arms when the police wanted them? If a policeman showed up at my house with a warrant to confiscate a gun(s), I'd give it to him and hope he doesn't know about the other ones I have.
Were warrants issued during Katrina?
I assume if a warrant were issued for me I had done something very wrong, or the country had changed greatly.
Either way, for some of us there is line that will not be crossed...
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:20 am to son of arlo
quote:
I just can't see any rationality with a fantasy of having a running gun battle with the police or the US military. You're picking a fight with someone bigger and better than you.
There is nothing fantastical about a running gin battle with the military. That's why you avoid it at all costs. Fight the supply lines and those that support the government. Not the military and the government.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:24 am to son of arlo
quote:
After Katrina, were there any Louisianians who refused to give up their arms when the police wanted them? If a policeman showed up at my house with a warrant to confiscate a gun(s), I'd give it to him and hope he doesn't know about the other ones I have.
My cousin. They arrested him and searched his home for all his firearms.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:35 am to klrstix
quote:
In today's world
I thought we were talking why we have not been invaded historically. Yes WMD usage changes the equation, but even today a conventional invader would be screwed by the 2nd Amendment.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:37 am to BRgetthenet
quote:
My cousin. They arrested him and searched his home for all his firearms.
Did they have a warrant?
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:42 am to weagle99
quote:My bad. The rednecks would win.
It is like you haven't even read anything in this thread.
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/Iconcheers.gif)
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:46 am to weagle99
They didn't produce a warrant. Nopd shot him with bean bags and threw him in jail for 4 days without access to counsel.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 11:48 am to cwill
quote:The OP is the same guy who stated a troll thread about guns a couple weeks back. Feed him enough and he'll turn this discussion that way too.
Are we expecting an armed revolt anytime soon?
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:02 pm to DonChowder
quote:----NO!!!!
Did they have a warrant?
it was mass confiscation, the 82nd Airborne went house to house confiscating firearms: look it up
Posted on 1/29/14 at 12:03 pm to ninthward
quote:yes
Are we expecting an armed revolt anytime soon?
![](https://images.tigerdroppings.com/Images/Icons/Iconusaflagsmiley.gif)
Posted on 1/29/14 at 1:39 pm to DonChowder
I asked a simple question. If it makes you feel ridiculous or like you're being "troll"ed....that should be an indicator of how comfortable you are with your thoughts.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 1:47 pm to Upperaltiger06
quote:
This is something I've thought about a lot actually. I am a veteran of the US Army Infantry, so I am familiar with Army tactics and all that. The American people would win, period. Here's why:
First, I've seen people quoting the 314 million people number for total population of America. That's misleading, do you expect every single person to fight? The infants, the elderly, the disabled, the pregnant women, the people who faint at the sight of blood? That said, let's say only one percent (thanks /u/CloudHazard) of the American population actually fights. That is 3,140,000 people. They still outnumber the military (going off /u/DXGypsy stats) numbers of 2,200,000. This 1% would be the cream of the crop of the American people's numbers. I would bet that the vast majority of this 1% would be veterans, hunters, gun enthusiasts, etc. This 1% could be armed just about as well as the actual military in a matter of days as I would assume gun store owners would open their doors to this militia.
Let's look at arming the militia a little more. Most of us veterans (at least the ones I know) have weapons in their homes. There are gun stores in every town that carry rifles and ammo. There are two Army reserve units in my town that have vehicles, ammo, supplies, and weapons like M240B's and Mk-19's. One is just down the street and I imagine the people would raid that place within hours of initial conflict. The other one is on a guarded NAS, but I bet we would get that one too. We might not hold it, but we would get in, frick things up so the military couldn't use it after we leave, and steal all the supplies. My guess is similar raids would happen across the country, giving the milita access to heavy weapons, if not planes, helicopters, and tanks/APC's.
The military would still outgun the militia. The militia would opt for guerilla tactics and melt into the shadows. Remember that many of the militia members would have served in Vietnam or OEF/OIF (any many smaller conflicts in between) and are familiar with guerilla warfare. On top of that, the militia is familiar with US military operations and knows just where to strike to inflict the maximum amount of damage in the most efficient way. From deployment tactics to FOB set ups, the militia has a huge advantage here. Also, the militia could organize a highly effective psych warfare campaign since many of them are veterans and know exactly which buttons to push to lower morale.
Sure, the military can start rooting out the militia by executing families on live TV, but I bet that would do more harm than good. I bet more people would join the militia than would surrender to save their families. The military knows that there is no hope if they incite the other 90% of the American population that are not currently active fighters.
While the military is trying to figure out who is combatant and who is not, while they are locating, arresting, and executing families, the militia is striking at critical places over and over. I think the militia would become fairly coordinated and organize a decent chian of command pretty quickly. Most of them are veterans after all, and it's just like riding a bike.
Now, say the military locates the militia command group in a specific area. They organize a strike force to go in and take them out. The strike force would probably be Rangers or SF or SEALs (or a mix) and you have to remember that these guys, as awesome as they are, come from all over the country. If the military is lucky, they might have a guy in the group who is from the general area of the assault. On the other hand, it is a good bet that the entire militia in that area is from that area and knows the area much better than the strike force would. Another advantage for the militia.
I could go on, but I think you might get the point. Even with 1% of the total US population fighting against 100% of the military, unless WMD's are given a green light, I just don't think the military can win.
Edit: Not to mention the fact that the American people are still breeding another generation of people who can fight. Unless the military starts its own breeding program, it becomes a matter of "Can the US military kill enough civilians to force a surrender before the civilians kill enough military members?" If the war drags out for an extended amount of time, the US military will eventually run out of people while the American people won't.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 1:49 pm to klrstix
quote:
and it has nothing to do with the 2nd amemendment..
I wouldn't go that far. Americans are armed to the teeth. Any invading unit would be up against both our military and our citizens.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 1:49 pm to Upperaltiger06
500,000 soldiers with tanks, aircraft, drones, ect still loses to an armed populace of 100 million guerrilla fighters.
The old saying "don't bring a knife to a gunfight" doesn't really apply when you have a six shooter revolver taking on 200 people with knives. In that case, the knives win.
The old saying "don't bring a knife to a gunfight" doesn't really apply when you have a six shooter revolver taking on 200 people with knives. In that case, the knives win.
This post was edited on 1/29/14 at 1:53 pm
Posted on 1/29/14 at 1:51 pm to kingbob
quote:
500,000 soldiers with tanks, aircraft, drones, ect still loses to an armed populace of 100 million guerrilla fighters.
Rather quickly. Especially considering that the guerrilla fighters are familiar with the land.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 1:54 pm to Antonio Moss
quote:
Rather quickly. Especially considering that the guerrilla fighters are familiar with the land.
I don't see how some people can't understand this. The question/premise posed by the OP is being and has been repeatedly debunked everyday in the mideast for the last 12+ years.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 1:57 pm to Upperaltiger06
quote:
How effective could an independent militia formed by citizens be against an organized military with an incomparably superior arsenal?
Our founding fathers called to say hello.
Posted on 1/29/14 at 1:58 pm to Sentrius
See Vietnam.
Think of the sheer amount of weapons on the Eastern and Western Seaboards. An invading force wouldn't make it 100 miles inland. And it would be a tenth of that if they tried to invade through a major American port. Hell, if they came through New Orleans, they wouldn't make it it Metairie.
Think of the sheer amount of weapons on the Eastern and Western Seaboards. An invading force wouldn't make it 100 miles inland. And it would be a tenth of that if they tried to invade through a major American port. Hell, if they came through New Orleans, they wouldn't make it it Metairie.
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