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American History X question
Posted on 3/5/10 at 5:21 pm
Posted on 3/5/10 at 5:21 pm
I was just watching this movie today on FX for the first time in years. I think that Edward Norton's character Derek Vinyard shows that as much as people try to change their ways, there seems to always be some other problems. I think that this is a powerful movie, and I want to ask the question to the board if you think that final message of this movie is a good message or not? Will there always be some problems with race relations in America?
Posted on 3/5/10 at 5:23 pm to msukb79
quote:
? Will there always be some problems with race relations in America?
I don't see anything that says it's getting better...
Posted on 3/5/10 at 5:25 pm to DanglingFury
It's too late. People realize that playing the victim can be profitable. So why would they change?
Posted on 3/5/10 at 5:25 pm to DanglingFury
Louis Farrakhan probably turned it off at the curb stomp moment. If he would have just kept watching, we might all be holding hands.
Posted on 3/5/10 at 5:35 pm to DanglingFury
quote:
I don't see anything that says it's getting better...
But seriously though, this country is still relatively young. The Emancipation Proclamation isn't even 150 years old yet. Blacks have only been able to vote for 140 years and women 90 years. We have a pretty diverse population, but somehow the United States is still here. There are plenty of predictions that Hispanics will be the majority in the US by 2050. I think racism will be around forever because people like to associate with similar people, but 500 years from now, I don't think it will be anywhere near as relevant as it has been the last 100 years.
Posted on 3/5/10 at 5:37 pm to Archie Bengal Bunker
quote:
I think racism will be around forever because people like to associate with similar people, but 500 years from now, I don't think it will be anywhere near as relevant as it has been the last 100 years.
I could see that.
Posted on 3/5/10 at 5:43 pm to DanglingFury
There is also the theory that we could all look the same some time in the distant future due to interracial breeding. No races, no racism? Kinda like the goobacks.
Posted on 3/5/10 at 5:49 pm to Archie Bengal Bunker
I thought the message was racism = bad. He tried to get this through his brothers head but before he could it was too late
Posted on 3/5/10 at 6:17 pm to msukb79
Why do we always talk about racism like it's a uniquely American problem?
Africa has been plagued with a half-century of warfare as blacks try to eradicate rival tribes of other blacks.
Fwiw, I think the two most important themes in American History X have nothing to do with race:
1. Gangs and cults (including skinheads) recruit young people who feel weak and disaffected by promising them empowerment. They take them and provide their lives with structure and false sense of security, while taking them into a dangerous life.
2. What kind of examples do you set for your loved ones? Ed Norton wanted to get his little brother out of the life, but actions have unforeseen consequences, and the dominoes had already been set in motion before he decided to change.
Africa has been plagued with a half-century of warfare as blacks try to eradicate rival tribes of other blacks.
Fwiw, I think the two most important themes in American History X have nothing to do with race:
1. Gangs and cults (including skinheads) recruit young people who feel weak and disaffected by promising them empowerment. They take them and provide their lives with structure and false sense of security, while taking them into a dangerous life.
2. What kind of examples do you set for your loved ones? Ed Norton wanted to get his little brother out of the life, but actions have unforeseen consequences, and the dominoes had already been set in motion before he decided to change.
Posted on 3/5/10 at 6:33 pm to Archie Bengal Bunker
quote:
but 500 years from now, I don't think it will be anywhere near as relevant as it has been the last 100 years.
Ummm, you need to watch the movie 2012.
Posted on 3/5/10 at 6:34 pm to PowerTool
quote:
1. Gangs and cults (including skinheads) recruit young people who feel weak and disaffected by promising them empowerment. They take them and provide their lives with structure and false sense of security, while taking them into a dangerous life.
2. What kind of examples do you set for your loved ones? Ed Norton wanted to get his little brother out of the life, but actions have unforeseen consequences, and the dominoes had already been set in motion before he decided to change.
I think you are making the race issue in this movie smaller than it is, but these are two very good points. It always amazed me in this movie that Ed finally got his little brother to see the light, but he gets shot for blowing smoke in someone's face.
I also like the gang point. While, in the case of this particular movie, the gang made the whites feel powerful since they thought they were being wronged by society, it only ended up hurting some of them.
Posted on 3/5/10 at 6:36 pm to msukb79
quote:Inasmuch as it involved the continuing negative repercussions of Vineyard's decisions, even long after he had turned from them, it's good as a warning.
that final message of this movie is a good message or not?
quote:There will always be race relations everywhere to some degree.
Will there always be some problems with race relations in America?
Posted on 3/5/10 at 6:43 pm to JPLSU1981
Racism, is and always exist because one race can't be happy when its simply made fun off, or put down by another.
Every race has had a slave or has been a slave, Every race has been in a type of war, same as the next, We all will find some way to get along.
When a natural Disaster strikes the earth or country per say like Hati?, does race really matter.
Racism comes from a psychological part of the human mind. If I say "hes short because he's Asian does that really mean I am being racist?", and when you look at someone like Yao Meng how do you know, that I wasn't just being funny or saying He is short because a lot of Asian people vary in the short size?, The racism probably comes from the person in General because its really just Psychological.
Every race has had a slave or has been a slave, Every race has been in a type of war, same as the next, We all will find some way to get along.
When a natural Disaster strikes the earth or country per say like Hati?, does race really matter.
Racism comes from a psychological part of the human mind. If I say "hes short because he's Asian does that really mean I am being racist?", and when you look at someone like Yao Meng how do you know, that I wasn't just being funny or saying He is short because a lot of Asian people vary in the short size?, The racism probably comes from the person in General because its really just Psychological.
Posted on 3/5/10 at 7:41 pm to msukb79
Derek tried his best to change his viewpoint on things, only to have it spit right back in his face. Even though he realized that not ALL of them are bad, he was faced with the reality that some definitely are. That goes for every race. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. is probably rolling over in his grave, with all of the hatred and violence that the hip-hop generation has intensified.
This post was edited on 3/5/10 at 7:45 pm
Posted on 3/5/10 at 8:00 pm to Freddy Shoop
to everyone who has posted on this thread, well done. It has been a long time since I've read through a page of posts and been this impressed the level of thought. I guess that's a testament to the movie's ability to create discussion. It kind of blows down all of the doors. That, and the Movie/TV is pretty civil, by TR standards.
The movie's ending was realistic in that there was no round happy summation of old Vineyards rejection of his past. I think it might make the point that white washing the past can not be done, which speaks volume about how some approach the issue of racism in the US.
Will there be racism? Sure the US is built of a basis of relatively constant immigration. The people who arrive most recently will always face the lingering eye. What's really missing from the debate about racism in the US, and probably elsewhere, is how it CAN NOT be viewed in terms of black and white. Asians, Latinos, Middle Easterners, and Indians (subcontinent), all factor in. I am constantly amazed by how little is made of Black/Latino relations particularly in urban areas.
The movie's ending was realistic in that there was no round happy summation of old Vineyards rejection of his past. I think it might make the point that white washing the past can not be done, which speaks volume about how some approach the issue of racism in the US.
Will there be racism? Sure the US is built of a basis of relatively constant immigration. The people who arrive most recently will always face the lingering eye. What's really missing from the debate about racism in the US, and probably elsewhere, is how it CAN NOT be viewed in terms of black and white. Asians, Latinos, Middle Easterners, and Indians (subcontinent), all factor in. I am constantly amazed by how little is made of Black/Latino relations particularly in urban areas.
This post was edited on 3/5/10 at 8:03 pm
Posted on 3/6/10 at 12:17 am to BinxBolling
quote:
BinxBolling
That's a great username, especially for the movie board. I'm surprised to realize I've never used it as an online alias.
Posted on 3/6/10 at 12:35 am to F machine
quote:
I think you are making the race issue in this movie smaller than it is
Re-reading my post, I probably didn't make my point very well, and I'm not sure I can without getting long-winded.
My suggestion that skinhead orgs share things in common with most street gangs, as well as my belief that people join them for reasons other than race are just based on personal experiences I probably can't explain adequately in a message board post.
Posted on 3/6/10 at 12:41 am to F machine
quote:I felt like one point was that any group in our society can feel like they are being wronged, whether it is true or not. No race, group or creed has a monopoly on feeling wronged. IMO the most important, and telling, thing is how that group reacts to the feeling or real or perceived wrong.
I also like the gang point. While, in the case of this particular movie, the gang made the whites feel powerful since they thought they were being wronged by society, it only ended up hurting some of them.
Posted on 3/6/10 at 12:51 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
I felt like one point was that any group in our society can feel like they are being wronged, whether it is true or not. No race, group or creed has a monopoly on feeling wronged. IMO the most important, and telling, thing is how that group reacts to the feeling or real or perceived wrong.
this is true. I think when he went to jail and met the black guy he washed clothes with ( can't remember his name), he realized that not all people that aren't white are bad. I think he also realized most people in the world are wronged in some way, and, like you said, you kinda just have to deal with it. In most cases you just can't go and hurt or kill people because you think they wronged or harmed you in some way. Oddly enough, the people he thinks wronged him, in the end, actually did wrong him. Black people killed his dad towards the beginning and his brother at the end. Do you think he'll go back to being a skinhead or is he totally past that now?
Posted on 3/6/10 at 12:57 am to F machine
quote:I don't feel like a regression would have been an outcome, but I have no logical reasoning for it one way or another, other than he had seen behind the curtain at that point. Perhaps the situation may have given him further reason to be racist in an individual sense, but I would doubt in a skinhead sense after what he had been through.
Oddly enough, the people he thinks wronged him, in the end, actually did wrong him. Black people killed his dad towards the beginning and his brother at the end. Do you think he'll go back to being a skinhead or is he totally past that now?
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