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Track Coaches/Former Track Athletes- any advice?
Posted on 3/7/26 at 4:06 pm
Posted on 3/7/26 at 4:06 pm
So my 8th grade daughter is showing some decent ability as a XC and distance track runner. However, we keep having the same issue where she makes a lot of gains in the off season, starts off doing really well but then doesn't improve much during the season which of course leads to a lot of post meet frustration.
Our coach is great at putting together a big program and keeping everyone happy, mainly because he focuses on the mid/lower tier runners. What can we do to break through these walls and continuously improve like most other runners seem to do, specifically for the 800 and 1600 in track right now.
Right now she's running 5 days a week getting about 20 miles in that time with 1 tempo, 1 workout. Maybe does a 15 min. core workout once or twice a week. How do we incorporate some body weight/lightweight training (lunges, squats, etc...) without burning up her for her races/other runs? Any advice really would be helpful... She's willing I just don't really know how to help her other than just saying run more but not sure how to structure it effectively.
Our coach is great at putting together a big program and keeping everyone happy, mainly because he focuses on the mid/lower tier runners. What can we do to break through these walls and continuously improve like most other runners seem to do, specifically for the 800 and 1600 in track right now.
Right now she's running 5 days a week getting about 20 miles in that time with 1 tempo, 1 workout. Maybe does a 15 min. core workout once or twice a week. How do we incorporate some body weight/lightweight training (lunges, squats, etc...) without burning up her for her races/other runs? Any advice really would be helpful... She's willing I just don't really know how to help her other than just saying run more but not sure how to structure it effectively.
6
Posted on 3/7/26 at 4:56 pm to RandySavage
Time her splits and try to improve those incrementally. 800 isn’t really long distance and needs to be thought of as almost a sprint. Clearly not like a 100, but I ran the 400 and XC my dad who was a track coach always had me train for the 400 by running the 800 as a sprint. Meaning just full throttle and striding across the straight aways.
1600 she needs to focus on improving her 1/4 mile splits one by one. That last lap needs to be run like a 400.
1600 she needs to focus on improving her 1/4 mile splits one by one. That last lap needs to be run like a 400.
Posted on 3/7/26 at 4:57 pm to RandySavage
I ran. I have 3 kids in track and XC (one in college) and this post hits home.
It’s pretty common honestly for kids to stall during the season, honestly surviving the season is a win. My son is a great runner and end of season is often a let down, PRs usually come early to mid season.
Some runners do better with tons of mileage, others with more intensity - figure out which she is and hope the coach adjusts.
For extra training, the big things that helped my kids:
Nordic Curls: Bulletproof hamstrings and extra kick. After a few months, my miler was fast enough to join the 4x4 crew.
Facepulls: Helped get rid of the shoulder exhaustion in the 800
Trap Bar Deads: Kids got plenty strong and stayed injury free.
It’s pretty common honestly for kids to stall during the season, honestly surviving the season is a win. My son is a great runner and end of season is often a let down, PRs usually come early to mid season.
Some runners do better with tons of mileage, others with more intensity - figure out which she is and hope the coach adjusts.
For extra training, the big things that helped my kids:
Nordic Curls: Bulletproof hamstrings and extra kick. After a few months, my miler was fast enough to join the 4x4 crew.
Facepulls: Helped get rid of the shoulder exhaustion in the 800
Trap Bar Deads: Kids got plenty strong and stayed injury free.
This post was edited on 3/7/26 at 6:57 pm
Posted on 3/7/26 at 6:23 pm to RandySavage
Quoting this from a previous poster which is right on...
My maybe not helpful thought - for 8th grade this isn't a big deal, especially if she is following a good training plan and is enjoying running.
Now my maybe helpful thoughts, adding in an age-appropriate strength training program that complements her running is definitely a good idea. Next, competition matters a lot, especially for the 800 and 1600 on the track. And not just competition in meets, competition in practice. What phases of her races does she excel in a where does she struggle, knowing that could help with training recommendations.
In HS what helped with PRs more than anything was increasing competition at regionals and eventually state.
quote:
It’s pretty common honestly for kids to stall during the season, honestly surviving the season is a win. My son is a great runner and end of season is often a let down, PRs usually come early to mid season.
My maybe not helpful thought - for 8th grade this isn't a big deal, especially if she is following a good training plan and is enjoying running.
Now my maybe helpful thoughts, adding in an age-appropriate strength training program that complements her running is definitely a good idea. Next, competition matters a lot, especially for the 800 and 1600 on the track. And not just competition in meets, competition in practice. What phases of her races does she excel in a where does she struggle, knowing that could help with training recommendations.
In HS what helped with PRs more than anything was increasing competition at regionals and eventually state.
Posted on 3/7/26 at 9:26 pm to NOLALGD
So her last two 800s she's basically gone 35, 40, 40, 39-40 to finish 2:34-2:35. She's only run one 1600 this season and ran 5:42 but a couple of kids she was beating comfortably in XC season and even by 3-4 seconds in her last 800 ran mid 5:30s today so she's frustrated.
I guess my biggest question is if we were to implement a little strength work what days is it best to do it on, especially trying to navigate it with meets on the weekend? Should she be doing more pace work? I think maybe she's still training more like a XC runner than a 800/1600 track runner.
Typically right now if she has a Saturday meet she does-
Easy 4ish on Mondays maybe a couple of strides
Tuesday rest/maybe light core work
Wednesday 3 easy with a mile or so of 200/400 pace work
Thursday 4-5 easy.
Friday shakeout maybe 2 total with strides
Saturday race
Sunday 4 easy
If no race Saturday-
Monday- 4-5 easy
Tuesday- rest/core
Wednesday- 4 w/2 or 3 at Tempo
Thursday- 4-5 easy
Friday- rest/core
Saturday- 6
Sunday- Track workout
I guess my biggest question is if we were to implement a little strength work what days is it best to do it on, especially trying to navigate it with meets on the weekend? Should she be doing more pace work? I think maybe she's still training more like a XC runner than a 800/1600 track runner.
Typically right now if she has a Saturday meet she does-
Easy 4ish on Mondays maybe a couple of strides
Tuesday rest/maybe light core work
Wednesday 3 easy with a mile or so of 200/400 pace work
Thursday 4-5 easy.
Friday shakeout maybe 2 total with strides
Saturday race
Sunday 4 easy
If no race Saturday-
Monday- 4-5 easy
Tuesday- rest/core
Wednesday- 4 w/2 or 3 at Tempo
Thursday- 4-5 easy
Friday- rest/core
Saturday- 6
Sunday- Track workout
Posted on 3/8/26 at 8:58 am to RandySavage
8th grade?
I just checked MileSplit and 5:40 would easily put her top 5 in the state in Alabama.
I just checked MileSplit and 5:40 would easily put her top 5 in the state in Alabama.
Posted on 3/8/26 at 10:28 am to RandySavage
Thanks for sharing the details. I was a former runner and have a bit of coaching experience, but will defer to others with more experience on the current training regime.
How long has she been competitively running? My first thought is she just needs more experience on the track along with physical growth that will happen as she gets older. Its very common for middle distance XC runners to take a while to adapt to running on a track vs a XC course. I've seen many runners that were just more comfortable on a XC course vs the track, and vice versa. And for the 1600, a track kick is way different than a XC kick at the end of 2 or 3 miles.
Last, I agree with a poster saying run some 400m. I would see if she can get on the 4x400 relay, and not run scratch, but one of the other legs so she isn't confined to a lane and has to run around/with/in front/behind other runners. I believe that race is the best for developing a "feel" for track racing.
In short, it might not be a training fix (or at least a training fix for an 8th grader), it might be developing comfort and experience on the track, which can take time. I don't think you've really run a race until you've been boxed in and needed to throw an elbow or two to get off the rail, kinda joking, maybe.
How long has she been competitively running? My first thought is she just needs more experience on the track along with physical growth that will happen as she gets older. Its very common for middle distance XC runners to take a while to adapt to running on a track vs a XC course. I've seen many runners that were just more comfortable on a XC course vs the track, and vice versa. And for the 1600, a track kick is way different than a XC kick at the end of 2 or 3 miles.
Last, I agree with a poster saying run some 400m. I would see if she can get on the 4x400 relay, and not run scratch, but one of the other legs so she isn't confined to a lane and has to run around/with/in front/behind other runners. I believe that race is the best for developing a "feel" for track racing.
In short, it might not be a training fix (or at least a training fix for an 8th grader), it might be developing comfort and experience on the track, which can take time. I don't think you've really run a race until you've been boxed in and needed to throw an elbow or two to get off the rail, kinda joking, maybe.
This post was edited on 3/8/26 at 3:14 pm
Posted on 3/8/26 at 7:12 pm to RandySavage
She needs to run sets of intervals such as 8x400 at least once a week but twice a week is better. Either Monday and Wednesday or Tuesday Thursday. The second set of intervals could be 10x200 s.Start doing those intervals about 3 weeks before the meets start and after the season is over go back to just distance work. At the beginning of the season rhe 400s would be at 80 seconds each with 2 minutes rest between each. By the end of the season she should be running them faster, say 72 seconds each with 1 minute rest and only do 6 of them. So every 2 weeks run them a couple of seconds faster and see how she handles the faster sets. Ideally she would set a goal of what time she wants to run the mile and 800 in by the end of the season and the 400 time would be determined by that goal. The runs she is doing currently won't help her get faster, only by running faster in workouts will she get faster. I ran in College and intervals were the core part of our running.
This post was edited on 3/8/26 at 7:56 pm
Posted on 3/8/26 at 9:33 pm to Zappas Stache
Two workouts a week even with a race that weekend? I agree with needing to run fast to get faster just not sure what kind of load a 14 year old girl can handle.
Posted on 3/9/26 at 8:19 am to RandySavage
get her stronger and start tracking the number of steps she takes in the event. Start getting her much stronger so she takes less. Similar to how sprinters train. Obviously its going to be different as you are not focused on pure acceleration but the number of steps taken still applies. you can just film a 400, do the analysis and then try to improve that.
focus on box squats, both wide and narrow, sumo deadlift and reverse lunge as main lifts. then slam the posterior chain on accessories. and lots and lots of sled dragging and jumping
continue to build big time in the off season, try and maintain the strength in season so she has a strength reserve to pull from.
focus on box squats, both wide and narrow, sumo deadlift and reverse lunge as main lifts. then slam the posterior chain on accessories. and lots and lots of sled dragging and jumping
continue to build big time in the off season, try and maintain the strength in season so she has a strength reserve to pull from.
This post was edited on 3/9/26 at 8:21 am
Posted on 3/9/26 at 9:21 am to RandySavage
copy and past what you just typed into ChatGpt and add "ask me any clarifying question"
Posted on 3/9/26 at 4:06 pm to RandySavage
quote:
just not sure what kind of load a 14 year old girl can handle.
Pretty much all 14 year old guys and girls that are serious about getting faster are doing 2 hard interval sessions per week and a race on the weekend.
Posted on 3/9/26 at 5:31 pm to Zappas Stache
If she is used to 20 mile weeks on 5 days, I would slowly increase the weekly mileage and change to running 7 days a week over the next couple months. Probably end this track season around 25-28 weekly miles.
I would stick to body weight for strength training. Squats, lunges, box jumps, different plyometric jumps & skips. I would do it on the same days as the core workouts once or twice a week.
Everything else is very similar to what I have my runners do. I have a 7th grader at 2:39, 5:50, 12:39 and a 6th grader at 2:52, 6:00. I have barely introduced strength training to them yet. They are both averaging 20-25 miles per week this season.
2:34 & 5:42 in 8th grade is pretty solid. I would trust the coach if he says yes or no to mileage increases or additional strength training.
I would stick to body weight for strength training. Squats, lunges, box jumps, different plyometric jumps & skips. I would do it on the same days as the core workouts once or twice a week.
Everything else is very similar to what I have my runners do. I have a 7th grader at 2:39, 5:50, 12:39 and a 6th grader at 2:52, 6:00. I have barely introduced strength training to them yet. They are both averaging 20-25 miles per week this season.
2:34 & 5:42 in 8th grade is pretty solid. I would trust the coach if he says yes or no to mileage increases or additional strength training.
Posted on 3/9/26 at 6:05 pm to RandySavage
quote:
RandySavage
Also keep something in mind... Do you know who Ethan Strand is? He was really good during his high school years, but his parents were both XC coaches and pushed him to not push himself before college too much.
He didn't get burned out, while he was "impressive" in high school, a lot of other runners looked better than him at different times.
His younger brother wasn't given the same, "stay constrained" lifestyle by his parents: by the end of college Henry Strand will not be as decorated as his older brother - even though his high school records are MUCH BETTER than Ethan's
Posted on 3/9/26 at 9:10 pm to BaddestAndvari
Right, which is the balance I want to find. I don't want her to peak before she ever gets to high school but I don't want to baby her either.
Just in my short time following this sport I've seen a lot of girls in our area not really improve from 8th-9th grade to 11th and 12th grade.
She ran 5:40 and some change tonight so it's slowly ticking down. Hopefully go sub 5:40 next weekend.
Just in my short time following this sport I've seen a lot of girls in our area not really improve from 8th-9th grade to 11th and 12th grade.
She ran 5:40 and some change tonight so it's slowly ticking down. Hopefully go sub 5:40 next weekend.
Posted on 3/10/26 at 8:34 am to AmIDonut
quote:
I would stick to body weight for strength training. Squats, lunges, box jumps, different plyometric jumps & skips. I would do it on the same days as the core workouts once or twice a week.
why?
here is the thing, the mile breaks down to smaller intervals and sprints at times
the fastest way to improve sprint time once puberty starts is by improving stride length so you lesson the number of steps it takes to finish the race
guess what the number 1 way to do that is, improving horizontal force...aka ground force reaction
best way to do that is sumo deads, reverse lunges and box squats using the static overcoming dynamic method
in 8th grade, a female is full on puberty and is in ripe time to start heavy strength training and to take advantage of the novice window
im sure i will get a bunch of down votes again from a bunch of people who have zero clue about actually improving speed and just think running a lot being in shape will do it.
Posted on 3/10/26 at 2:52 pm to Zappas Stache
I can't speak for the strength training because my track coach did not believe in middle- and long-distance runners using weights during the season 
We did this a lot, and I felt it helped my progress tremendously. The biggest key was I ran my 200 meters with the guys that ran these races.
We would also occasionally do 100-meter splits. Run 100 meters, walk 100 meters, run, walk... From what I recall, the purpose for this was being able to go all out at the end of the race when you are tired
quote:
run sets of intervals such as 8x400 at least once a week but twice a week is better. Either Monday and Wednesday or Tuesday Thursday. The second set of intervals could be 10x200 s.
We did this a lot, and I felt it helped my progress tremendously. The biggest key was I ran my 200 meters with the guys that ran these races.
We would also occasionally do 100-meter splits. Run 100 meters, walk 100 meters, run, walk... From what I recall, the purpose for this was being able to go all out at the end of the race when you are tired
Posted on 3/10/26 at 4:01 pm to Weekend Warrior79
Is it better to run the 2s and 4s at 8 and 16 paces respectively? How much rest between reps?
This post was edited on 3/10/26 at 4:26 pm
Posted on 3/10/26 at 4:48 pm to RandySavage
I went back and read your earlier post, this is the current training plan?
That is fine for middle school XC training, but that is not a track season workout, in any way, especially for an 800/1600. You need to talk to her coach now, she needs to be doing track work every day. I haven't coached or designed a HS program in 2 decades, but this is what I would (very generally):
Monday: 2 mile pace run, 4x800s
Tuesday: 4x400, 8x 200, core/strength work
Wednesday: 1.5 mile pace, 4x400 easy
Thursday: 6x400, core/strength work
Friday shakeout, 2x1200 easy, stretch
Saturday race
Sunday: 3 easy/recovery or rest
Monday and Tuesday are your beast days, Thursday is moderate day.
quote:
Easy 4ish on Mondays maybe a couple of strides
Tuesday rest/maybe light core work
Wednesday 3 easy with a mile or so of 200/400 pace work
Thursday 4-5 easy.
Friday shakeout maybe 2 total with strides
Saturday race
Sunday 4 easy
If no race Saturday-
Monday- 4-5 easy
Tuesday- rest/core
Wednesday- 4 w/2 or 3 at Tempo
Thursday- 4-5 easy
Friday- rest/core
Saturday- 6
Sunday- Track workout
That is fine for middle school XC training, but that is not a track season workout, in any way, especially for an 800/1600. You need to talk to her coach now, she needs to be doing track work every day. I haven't coached or designed a HS program in 2 decades, but this is what I would (very generally):
Monday: 2 mile pace run, 4x800s
Tuesday: 4x400, 8x 200, core/strength work
Wednesday: 1.5 mile pace, 4x400 easy
Thursday: 6x400, core/strength work
Friday shakeout, 2x1200 easy, stretch
Saturday race
Sunday: 3 easy/recovery or rest
Monday and Tuesday are your beast days, Thursday is moderate day.
This post was edited on 3/10/26 at 4:51 pm
Posted on 3/10/26 at 7:14 pm to RandySavage
What’s her sleep hygiene look like? Plenty of research out that for young athletes not getting enough sleep
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