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Message
Memos of Conversations Between Bush and Putin
Posted on 12/26/25 at 6:50 am
Posted on 12/26/25 at 6:50 am
These recently released memos provide a complete picture of Putin and Russia's position and motivations and the West failed foreign policy dealing with Russia.
There's more to it than, "Putin bad", as the Main Stream Media would have you believe.
LINK
There's more to it than, "Putin bad", as the Main Stream Media would have you believe.
quote:
As noted by The Islander (Via Twitter) – “The 2001 Memo That Should Have Ended the Cold War 2.0 and Instead Helped Write the Preface to Ukraine. There are documents that don’t merely record history, they expose it. This is one of them.
June 2001. A “restricted meeting” between President George W. Bush and President Vladimir Putin. Not a podium performance, not a television soundbite, not a speech crafted for domestic applause. A private conversation, the place where empires are supposed to speak plainly, where leaders test ideas that could reroute decades.
And what does the memo show?
Putin raises the idea that Russia could eventually join NATO. He says Russia feels “left out” by NATO enlargement. He points to an older fact most Western publics were never meant to internalize: the Soviet Union applied to join NATO in 1954. He argues the reasons for rejection no longer apply. He suggests, almost clinically, that perhaps Russia could be an ally — “European and multi-ethnic,” comparable in character to the United States.
Read that again slowly.
Because the propaganda version you’ve been fed for years requires amnesia: it requires you to believe Russia woke up one morning and decided to be “a threat,” as if geopolitics is a mood swing and security architecture is irrelevant.
But here is the declassified record: Russia was probing for an exit ramp. A pathway into a shared system. A new security architecture. A post–Cold War settlement that could have turned the 1990s from a hollow victory lap into a durable peace.
And it didn’t happen.
Not because it was impossible. Not because Russia “never wanted it.” Not because “the West tried everything.”
It didn’t happen because NATO, as an institution, does not know how to live without a frontier. It does not know how to justify itself without an adversary. It does not know how to maintain internal cohesion without a map that points east and says: there.
The 1954 Ghost: the offer the West never wanted to remember
The most important part of this memo is not the 2001 line, but the 1954 reference.
Because it collapses the morality play.
If the Soviet Union, a state the West defined as the existential enemy, floated the notion of joining NATO in 1954, that means something profound: the idea of Russia being inside the European security architecture is not a “Putin-era trick.” It is a recurring historical proposal, returning whenever Moscow believes there may be a rational way to avoid permanent confrontation.
And what happened then? It was refused.
Which is exactly the point: NATO was never simply a “defensive alliance.” Even in 1954, It was a structure. A protection racket. A way to organize Europe under an American strategic roof and to keep it there. If Russia enters that roof as an equal, the architecture changes. Budgets decrease, with less money for the MIC. Threat perceptions change. The entire postwar hierarchy changes.
So the West did what empires do when presented with a peace that would reduce their leverage:
It smiled, took notes, and kept moving.
“Join NATO” was never a plea, it was a test.
Some people still misunderstand the early Putin posture. They interpret it as naivete, or worse, submission.
Wrong.
This was not Russia begging to be absorbed. The consistent theme in contemporaneous accounts is conditionality, that Russia could consider joining if treated as an equal partner, but not as a defeated province invited into the emperor’s club after proving it can submit.
That distinction matters.
Because it reveals the real incompatibility:
•Russia wanted a security system where it is a partner of European security, not an object to be managed.
•The Atlantic system wanted Russia as a managed periphery, permanently “integrating,” permanently reforming, permanently conceding, never truly sovereign in security decisions.
You can’t fuse those visions. One side must yield.
So the Atlantic system chose the only thing it has ever really chosen, expansion.”
LINK
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:21 am to lake chuck fan
There's a group who runs America behind the scenes. This group capitalizes off of division. This same group was tossed out of Russia when the USSR collapsed.
This group will not allow Russia and the US to ally
This group will not allow Russia and the US to ally
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:25 am to lake chuck fan
As much as you weirdo Russian lovers refuse to deny it, Putin has installed a dictatorial, corrupt oligarchy in his country and it's not compatible with NATO. He only wanted to join it to destroy it from the inside.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:29 am to ClientNumber9
NATO is useless. Also, NATO is just as corrupt or even more so than Putin.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:31 am to GoAwayImBaitn
quote:
. This group capitalizes off of division. This same group was tossed out of Russia when the USSR collapsed.
This group will not allow Russia and the US to ally
Russia was at a crossroads in 1991. They could have embraced freedom and democracy. Instead, Putin installed a dictatorship. He trashed his constitution, absolved term limits to remain in power forever, imprisoned or murdered anyone who disagrees with him, and threw in his alliances with Iran, Venezuela, North Korea and China. I'm a conservative and it confuses the hell out of me to see a fringe of our party carrying the water for a murderous thug.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:32 am to ClientNumber9
quote:
He only wanted to join it to destroy it from the inside.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:35 am to ClientNumber9
There are posters on the board with zero knowledge of even relatively recent history. Toward the end of WW2
Churchill and Roosevelt were aware of Stalin’s and The Soviet Union’s desire to expand its control over Europe, including the West. Even General Patton knew conflict was inevitable. Russia and Putin (the KGB Putin) intensified efforts after the war ended.The partitioning of Berlin was early evidence of the long range goal.
Churchill and Roosevelt were aware of Stalin’s and The Soviet Union’s desire to expand its control over Europe, including the West. Even General Patton knew conflict was inevitable. Russia and Putin (the KGB Putin) intensified efforts after the war ended.The partitioning of Berlin was early evidence of the long range goal.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:39 am to VOR
quote:
Toward the end of WW2 Churchill and Roosevelt were aware of Stalin’s and The Soviet Union’s desire to expand its control over Europe, including the West. Even General Patton knew conflict was inevitable. Russia and Putin (the KGB Putin) intensified efforts after the war ended
Damn, dude wasn’t even alive and was making moves. Is he a time traveler?
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:39 am to VOR
quote:
Russia and Putin (the KGB Putin) intensified efforts after the war ended.
Putin began working in the KGB in the 70s. The war had been over for almost 30 years.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:40 am to lake chuck fan
Philosopher Renee Girard says it best. For the powerful to stay in power, there must be an “other” to blame things on.
China bought and paid for enough politicians to not be the other so it leaves Russia. A country we have much more in common with than may other “allies”.
China bought and paid for enough politicians to not be the other so it leaves Russia. A country we have much more in common with than may other “allies”.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:40 am to ClientNumber9
quote:
He only wanted to join it to destroy it from the inside.
Nah.... I don't agree.
What Putin wanted, based on his words and actions, was become part of the West. Create better economic opportunities for his country and prosperity. Instead of allowing this, the West continually ostracized Russia and now he's closer to China than ever before. THAT is the biggest failing of the West's foreign policy.
The article is right on the money. The MIC buying Congress and Pentagon leadership to influence their direction toward NATO.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:41 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
It didn’t happen because NATO, as an institution, does not know how to live without a frontier. It does not know how to justify itself without an adversary. It does not know how to maintain internal cohesion without a map that points east and says: there.
I agree with this part.
I’m highly skeptical that the USSR wanted to join NATO in 1954, except perhaps as a plot. It’s as if this writer never heard of Communism or saw how it operated in the world.
1954 was after Korea, before the Cultural Revolution in China, right when Khrushchev took over, less than 6 years after the end of the Berlin airlift, and the Iron Curtain was still being built.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:49 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
Which is exactly the point: NATO was never simply a “defensive alliance.” Even in 1954, It was a structure. A protection racket. A way to organize Europe under an American strategic roof and to keep it there. If Russia enters that roof as an equal, the architecture changes. Budgets decrease, with less money for the MIC. Threat perceptions change. The entire postwar hierarchy changes.
This thesis makes no sense.
Russia would never be close to an equal with the US or most European powers. It's culture is too shitty .
Why would the "power hierarchy" change? Russia doesn't have the ability to be that powerful. It's been surpassed economically by several former satellite nations (via the EU, not NATO, even though I expect conflation on that distinction).
We could buttfrick Russia today in short order with our conventional military.
quote:
This was not Russia begging to be absorbed. The consistent theme in contemporaneous accounts is conditionality, that Russia could consider joining if treated as an equal partner, but not as a defeated province invited into the emperor’s club after proving it can submit.
That is inevitable. Russia WAS a defeated province. They have structural problems that prohibit it ever becoming an equal, unless they tear down its society to the studs. By 2001, the oligarchy had already created a full kleptocracy, as well. They control Russia. You think they would give up their wealth to permit Russia to develop properly? After 500 years of Russian history showing that isn't possible?
quote:
So the West did what empires do when presented with a peace that would reduce their leverage:
It smiled, took notes, and kept moving.
"The West" is not an empire. Jesus Christ.
What a retarded "argument"
quote:
The Atlantic system wanted Russia as a managed periphery, permanently “integrating,” permanently reforming, permanently conceding, never truly sovereign in security decisions.
AKA, they would have to reject their stone age culture and join modernity?
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:53 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Philosopher Renee Girard says it best. For the powerful to stay in power, there must be an “other” to blame things on.
That applies to something like China or "globalism"
Russia isn't powerful enough to be "the other"
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:55 am to GoAwayImBaitn
quote:
There's a group who runs America behind the scenes. This group capitalizes off of division. This same group was tossed out of Russia when the USSR collapsed. This group will not allow Russia and the US to ally
Who are these people?
Posted on 12/26/25 at 8:56 am to SlowFlowPro
Recent history may show that, but historically the nuclear arms race and the spread of communism were the driving factors behind that. It’s more to propping up a boogeyman to continually have a perceived threat. GWOT comes to mind also.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 9:00 am to lake chuck fan
quote:
Putin wanted, based on his words and actions, was become part of the West.
Bro
Stop
quote:
Create better economic opportunities for his country and prosperity.
So the oligarchs who carved up Russia in the preceding decade would just give up all that money and power? Including the dictator Putin? They'd all drop the weird anti-Jewish sentiment?
None of that was ever going to happen
And unless all of that happened, they would never leave their historical backwater and join modernity and develop.
Posted on 12/26/25 at 9:02 am to lake chuck fan
In 1954 Russia occupied Eastetn Europe.
Were they going to free the nations behind the iron curtain? Were they going to roll their armies back to the motherland?
Were they going to free the nations behind the iron curtain? Were they going to roll their armies back to the motherland?
Posted on 12/26/25 at 9:02 am to WKUHilltopper
quote:
Who are these people?
Good question.
Let's take a look at the players who were instrumental in the provocation of the Ukraine Russia war
We have Victoria Nuland and Anthony Blinken holding high offices when the war begins. Zelensky is installed in Ukraine. We have Soros on record years ago stating "the way to bring down Russia is through Ukraine."
We now have Steve Whitkof and Jared Kushner actively "working" out a peace deal with Putin.
All of these people (except Putin) have something in common BUT DO NOT CONNECT ANY DOTS
This post was edited on 12/26/25 at 9:06 am
Posted on 12/26/25 at 9:03 am to lake chuck fan
NATO should have dissolved as soon as the Berlin wall came down and the satellite states of the old Soviet Union got their freedom. Let’s not pretend that NATO wasn’t specifically created to face a threat which now no longer exist.
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