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Message
Robert’s insist that tariffs are a tax on the American people, and a tax needs to come
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:13 pm
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:13 pm
From Congress
So for Obama care, he said it could survive as a tax, but for Trump, he wants to argue since it’s a tax on Americans, Trump can’t impose? Seems like that’s some assumed word substitution there, but what do I know?
Sauer’s response didn’t copy over(in the link)
LINK
So for Obama care, he said it could survive as a tax, but for Trump, he wants to argue since it’s a tax on Americans, Trump can’t impose? Seems like that’s some assumed word substitution there, but what do I know?
Sauer’s response didn’t copy over(in the link)
LINK
quote:
Roberts questioned Sauer and noted Congress’s “core power” of regulating taxes, clearly rejecting his argument that Trump’s tariffs aren’t taxes.
“But I mean, and I think this is a question for the other side as well: it’s two-facing. Yes, of course, there are dealings with foreign powers, but the vehicle is imposition of taxes on Americans, and that has always been the core power of Congress. So to have the president’s foreign affairs power trump that basic power for Congress—it seems to me to at least neutralize between the two powers, the executive power and the legislative power,” Roberts said to Sauer, who replied:
Let me say two things in response to that. First, the notion that the taxes are all borne by Americans and not by foreign producers whose goods are imported—empirically, there’s no basis for that in the record. It’s actually a mix.
“But, who pays the tariffs? If a tariff is imposed on automobiles, who pays them?” Roberts interjected.
“Typically, regardless of who the importer of record is, there’d be a contract that would go along the line of transfer that would allocate the tariff. And there’d be different—sometimes the foreign producer would pay them, sometimes the importers would bear the cost. The importer could be an American, could be a foreign company. A lot of times, it’s a wholly owned American subsidiary of a foreign corporation. So it gets allocated. The empirical estimates range from like 30% to 80% of how much is borne by the maker,” Sauer replied.
Roberts hit back, “It’s been suggested that the tariffs are responsible for significant reduction in our deficit. I would say that’s raising revenue domestically.”
“There certainly is an incidental and collateral effect to the tariffs that they do raise revenue, but it’s very important that they are regulatory tariffs, not revenue-raising tariffs,” Sauer replied, adding:
And the way you can see this, I think—if you look at this policy, this policy is by far the most effective if nobody ever pays the tariffs. I say two policies, right? So if you looked at the trade deficit emergency, if nobody ever pays the tariff and instead Americans direct their consumption towards American producers and stimulate the rebuilding of our hollowed-out manufacturing base, then the policy is by far the most effective.
48
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:15 pm to Padme
So if this gets struck down do they clowns expect the funds to be returned?
What a total mess and it will be the end of this country
What a total mess and it will be the end of this country
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:15 pm to Padme
Trump should disband the IRS and every single federal agency not mandated by law by Congress tomorrow
This post was edited on 11/5/25 at 9:16 pm
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:18 pm to Padme
quote:
So for Obama care, he said it could survive as a tax, but for Trump, he wants to argue since it’s a tax on Americans, Trump can’t impose?
Are you under the impression Obamacare was imposed by Obama without Congress?
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:19 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
What a total mess and it will be the end of this country
Unless Trump defies and congress codify. To think it’s a long shot for a republican congress to step the fuk up
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:29 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
What a total mess and it will be the end of this country
Melt!
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:32 pm to Padme
Name an economist thats says tarrifs are not a tax? They are
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:35 pm to Padme
“ So for Obama care, he said it could survive as a tax, but for Trump, he wants to argue since it’s a tax on Americans, Trump can’t impose? Seems like that’s some assumed word substitution there, but what do I know?”
Obamacare was a law passed by Congress. I didn’t care for Roberts characterizing the mandate as a tax, but it was most definitely a Congressional act. With tariffs, Trump is attempting to levy a tax on his own. So, not the same at all.
Obamacare was a law passed by Congress. I didn’t care for Roberts characterizing the mandate as a tax, but it was most definitely a Congressional act. With tariffs, Trump is attempting to levy a tax on his own. So, not the same at all.
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:36 pm to Padme
frick the Supreme court this is a list of tariffs charged with no congressional approval
#,President,Year,Target/Description,Rate,Legal Basis,Notes/Revenue Impact
1,Lyndon B. Johnson,1963,"Imported light trucks (""Chicken Tax"")",25%,Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Retaliation against European poultry tariffs; still in effect today.
2,Richard Nixon,1971,All dutiable imports (import surcharge),10%,Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917,Temporary to address dollar devaluation; raised ~$2B in revenue before repeal in 1973.
3,Gerald Ford,1975,Crude oil and petroleum products,Up to 60% effective increase (fee to $1/barrel),Trade Act of 1974,Energy security measure; generated ~$1B annually.
4,Ronald Reagan,1983,Imported motorcycles over 700cc,Up to 45% (phased down over 5 years),Section 201 (Trade Act of 1974),Protected Harley-Davidson; collected ~$100M.
5,Ronald Reagan,1987,Japanese semiconductors and computers,100%,Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1988 (precursor authority),"Enforced trade agreement; short-term, ~$200M impact."
6,George H.W. Bush,1991,Canadian softwood lumber,~6.5% (later adjusted to 11.8%),Section 301 (Trade Act of 1974),Dispute over subsidies; ongoing through NAFTA era.
7,George W. Bush,2002,"Steel imports from EU, Asia, others",Up to 30% (tiered),Section 201 (Trade Act of 1974),Safeguard action; withdrawn after WTO challenge; ~$500M collected.
8,Barack Obama,2009,Chinese passenger and light truck tires,Up to 35% (phased down over 3 years),"Section 421 (special China provision, Trade Act of 1974)","Saved ~1,200 U.S. jobs; ~$1.1B collected."
9,Barack Obama,2012,Chinese crystalline silicon photovoltaic products (solar panels),Up to 31% (phased down over 4 years),Section 201 (Trade Act of 1974),Anti-dumping response; ~$100M collected.
10,Donald Trump,2018,Solar panels (global) and washing machines,"30% (solar), 20–50% (washers, phased)",Section 201 (Trade Act of 1974),Safeguard; ~$1.8B collected in first year.
11,Donald Trump,2018,"Steel (global, exemptions for allies)",25%,Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),National security; ~$20B+ cumulative revenue.
12,Donald Trump,2018,"Aluminum (global, exemptions)",10%,Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Paired with steel; ~$5B cumulative.
13,Donald Trump,2018,"$50B Chinese goods (tech, machinery; Lists 1–2)",25%,Section 301 (Trade Act of 1974),Unfair IP practices; part of trade war escalation.
14,Donald Trump,2018–2019,$300B+ additional Chinese goods (Lists 3–4A),7.5–25%,Section 301 (Trade Act of 1974),Expanded coverage; ~$60B+ collected 2018–2020.
15,Donald Trump,2019,Turkish steel and aluminum,"Doubled to 50% (steel), 20% (aluminum)",Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Retaliation for Syria incursion; temporary.
16,Joe Biden,2022,Chinese steel and aluminum (derivatives),25% (from 0–7.5%),Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Closed loopholes; ~$1B additional revenue.
17,Joe Biden,2024,"Chinese EVs, batteries, semiconductors, solar cells, steel/aluminum","100% (EVs), 25–50% (others)",Section 301 (Trade Act of 1974),"Strategic sectors; phased in, ~$18B projected annual."
18,Donald Trump,2025,Canada and Mexico imports (border security),25%,IEEPA (1977),National emergency declaration; ongoing as of Nov 2025.
19,Donald Trump,2025,Additional on China (all imports),+10% (on top of existing),IEEPA (1977),Drugs/immigration linkage; ~$10B+ projected.
20,Donald Trump,2025,"Universal baseline tariff (all imports, exemptions for USMCA)",10%,IEEPA (1977),Trade deficit emergency; broadest since 1971.
21,Donald Trump,2025,Reciprocal tariffs (bilateral deficit matching),Varies (10–60% by country),IEEPA (1977),Exempts electronics; suspended for some until July 2025.
22,Donald Trump,2025,Imported autos and parts (global),25%,Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),National security probe; ~$100B projected revenue.
23,Donald Trump,2025,"Timber/lumber, furniture, kitchen cabinets (global)",10–50% (phased),Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Construction materials; effective Sep 2025.
24,Donald Trump,2025,"Steel, aluminum, copper (raised rates)","50% (steel/aluminum), new on copper",Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Expansion of 2018 actions.
25,Donald Trump,2025,Low-value imports from China (e-commerce),Updated duties (10–25%),Executive Order (reciprocal framework),Targets de minimis shipments; ~$5B projected.
#,President,Year,Target/Description,Rate,Legal Basis,Notes/Revenue Impact
1,Lyndon B. Johnson,1963,"Imported light trucks (""Chicken Tax"")",25%,Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Retaliation against European poultry tariffs; still in effect today.
2,Richard Nixon,1971,All dutiable imports (import surcharge),10%,Trading with the Enemy Act of 1917,Temporary to address dollar devaluation; raised ~$2B in revenue before repeal in 1973.
3,Gerald Ford,1975,Crude oil and petroleum products,Up to 60% effective increase (fee to $1/barrel),Trade Act of 1974,Energy security measure; generated ~$1B annually.
4,Ronald Reagan,1983,Imported motorcycles over 700cc,Up to 45% (phased down over 5 years),Section 201 (Trade Act of 1974),Protected Harley-Davidson; collected ~$100M.
5,Ronald Reagan,1987,Japanese semiconductors and computers,100%,Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1988 (precursor authority),"Enforced trade agreement; short-term, ~$200M impact."
6,George H.W. Bush,1991,Canadian softwood lumber,~6.5% (later adjusted to 11.8%),Section 301 (Trade Act of 1974),Dispute over subsidies; ongoing through NAFTA era.
7,George W. Bush,2002,"Steel imports from EU, Asia, others",Up to 30% (tiered),Section 201 (Trade Act of 1974),Safeguard action; withdrawn after WTO challenge; ~$500M collected.
8,Barack Obama,2009,Chinese passenger and light truck tires,Up to 35% (phased down over 3 years),"Section 421 (special China provision, Trade Act of 1974)","Saved ~1,200 U.S. jobs; ~$1.1B collected."
9,Barack Obama,2012,Chinese crystalline silicon photovoltaic products (solar panels),Up to 31% (phased down over 4 years),Section 201 (Trade Act of 1974),Anti-dumping response; ~$100M collected.
10,Donald Trump,2018,Solar panels (global) and washing machines,"30% (solar), 20–50% (washers, phased)",Section 201 (Trade Act of 1974),Safeguard; ~$1.8B collected in first year.
11,Donald Trump,2018,"Steel (global, exemptions for allies)",25%,Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),National security; ~$20B+ cumulative revenue.
12,Donald Trump,2018,"Aluminum (global, exemptions)",10%,Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Paired with steel; ~$5B cumulative.
13,Donald Trump,2018,"$50B Chinese goods (tech, machinery; Lists 1–2)",25%,Section 301 (Trade Act of 1974),Unfair IP practices; part of trade war escalation.
14,Donald Trump,2018–2019,$300B+ additional Chinese goods (Lists 3–4A),7.5–25%,Section 301 (Trade Act of 1974),Expanded coverage; ~$60B+ collected 2018–2020.
15,Donald Trump,2019,Turkish steel and aluminum,"Doubled to 50% (steel), 20% (aluminum)",Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Retaliation for Syria incursion; temporary.
16,Joe Biden,2022,Chinese steel and aluminum (derivatives),25% (from 0–7.5%),Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Closed loopholes; ~$1B additional revenue.
17,Joe Biden,2024,"Chinese EVs, batteries, semiconductors, solar cells, steel/aluminum","100% (EVs), 25–50% (others)",Section 301 (Trade Act of 1974),"Strategic sectors; phased in, ~$18B projected annual."
18,Donald Trump,2025,Canada and Mexico imports (border security),25%,IEEPA (1977),National emergency declaration; ongoing as of Nov 2025.
19,Donald Trump,2025,Additional on China (all imports),+10% (on top of existing),IEEPA (1977),Drugs/immigration linkage; ~$10B+ projected.
20,Donald Trump,2025,"Universal baseline tariff (all imports, exemptions for USMCA)",10%,IEEPA (1977),Trade deficit emergency; broadest since 1971.
21,Donald Trump,2025,Reciprocal tariffs (bilateral deficit matching),Varies (10–60% by country),IEEPA (1977),Exempts electronics; suspended for some until July 2025.
22,Donald Trump,2025,Imported autos and parts (global),25%,Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),National security probe; ~$100B projected revenue.
23,Donald Trump,2025,"Timber/lumber, furniture, kitchen cabinets (global)",10–50% (phased),Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Construction materials; effective Sep 2025.
24,Donald Trump,2025,"Steel, aluminum, copper (raised rates)","50% (steel/aluminum), new on copper",Section 232 (Trade Expansion Act of 1962),Expansion of 2018 actions.
25,Donald Trump,2025,Low-value imports from China (e-commerce),Updated duties (10–25%),Executive Order (reciprocal framework),Targets de minimis shipments; ~$5B projected.
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:38 pm to Padme
First off Congress gave this up in the 1930s.
It’s only Trump they give a frick about.
Trump didn’t use Congress to impose tariffs in his first term and Biden didn’t use Congress to keep all of trumps tariffs and to impose his own.
If you all want to go back to how things were I am totally cool with that. But you only want to do that with Trump. You didn’t with Clinton, Bush, Obama or Biden.
Bush sr and Clinton didn’t need congressional approval on every tariff cut they made which resulted in our jobs being shipped off.
We essentially phased out tariffs per presidents and not Congress. Even though people are saying that’s Congress’ job.
Prove me wrong or shut the frick up.
It’s only Trump they give a frick about.
Trump didn’t use Congress to impose tariffs in his first term and Biden didn’t use Congress to keep all of trumps tariffs and to impose his own.
If you all want to go back to how things were I am totally cool with that. But you only want to do that with Trump. You didn’t with Clinton, Bush, Obama or Biden.
Bush sr and Clinton didn’t need congressional approval on every tariff cut they made which resulted in our jobs being shipped off.
We essentially phased out tariffs per presidents and not Congress. Even though people are saying that’s Congress’ job.
Prove me wrong or shut the frick up.
This post was edited on 11/5/25 at 9:49 pm
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:48 pm to dgnx6
quote:
you all want to go back to how things were I am totally cool with that. But you only want to do that with Trump. You didn’t with Clinton, Bush, Obama or Biden.
The rules the rules… they apply when their enforced… unfortunately(fortunately for the American people)for Trump they are about to be enforced
This post was edited on 11/5/25 at 9:54 pm
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:50 pm to lepdagod
quote:
The rules the rules… they apply when their enforced… unfortunately(fortunately for the American people)for Trump they are about to enforced
So what tariff level will we go back to?
2024?
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:50 pm to Padme
quote:
Robert’s insist that tariffs are a tax on the American people, and a tax needs to come From Congress
Roberts is correct.
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:51 pm to SDVTiger
quote:
it will be the end of this country
Extreme measures should be taken if they strike it down imo
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:52 pm to Padme
quote:
Unless Trump defies and congress codify.
He should just declare himself king and tell everyone especially rogerthedemocrat to go get fricked
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:53 pm to Padme
If they do this I'll support whatever the frick Trump wants to do to correct the rot our institutions have experienced.
Whatever. Time to make some big moves.
Whatever. Time to make some big moves.
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:53 pm to dgnx6
quote:
So what tariff level will we go back to?
Don’t know… whatever the idiots in Congress come up with I guess…
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:54 pm to Padme
Wait so the idiot that said the ACA premiums weren’t a tax are now saying tariffs are a tax. This guy can’t seem to figure shite out?
Posted on 11/5/25 at 9:54 pm to Padme
It would not be a slam dunk getting congress to codify. They will be within months of an election. Many won’t put their name on tariffs.
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