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Started By
Message
EPA Set to remove DEF engine derate...
Posted on 8/12/25 at 12:58 pm
Posted on 8/12/25 at 12:58 pm
LINK
Awesome! Stupid chit has left me stranded in the middle of nowhere multiple times because of a stupid chinese made sensor.
If you're unfamiliar with derate... if there is a problem with the DEF or SCR system on your diesel powered vehicle or equipment, you get 4 hours of run time before your truck will only go 5mph... Even if the system is actually functioning properly.
Awesome! Stupid chit has left me stranded in the middle of nowhere multiple times because of a stupid chinese made sensor.
If you're unfamiliar with derate... if there is a problem with the DEF or SCR system on your diesel powered vehicle or equipment, you get 4 hours of run time before your truck will only go 5mph... Even if the system is actually functioning properly.
14
Posted on 8/12/25 at 12:59 pm to BoostAddict
We are healing!
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:07 pm to BoostAddict
frickING
A
RIGHT
You want to get people to quit deleting trucks, this is by far the biggest single step you can take.
Mine almost stranded me 20 miles away from the highway, in a blizzard, and below 0*F. The shite is dangerous. Most people have no problem at all with buying a jug of DEF every now and then but when we start talking about literally stranding people thousands of miles from home with shite like this people get mad.
Will Cummins get their $2B fine refunded?
A
RIGHT
You want to get people to quit deleting trucks, this is by far the biggest single step you can take.
Mine almost stranded me 20 miles away from the highway, in a blizzard, and below 0*F. The shite is dangerous. Most people have no problem at all with buying a jug of DEF every now and then but when we start talking about literally stranding people thousands of miles from home with shite like this people get mad.
Will Cummins get their $2B fine refunded?
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:11 pm to BoostAddict
quote:
DEF
At first I read that as “DEI” and was very confused.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:13 pm to BoostAddict
DEF needs to be scrapped completely.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:17 pm to Horsemeat
quote:
DEF needs to be scrapped completely
Nah. It's not a bad thing at all. It's a lot simpler than EGR and much more effective. If you want to knock NOx out of the exhaust stream, aftertreatment is the way to do it.
The problem is the protections, interlocks, derates etc associated with the EPA being a bunch of dickheads.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:46 pm to BoostAddict
MPG will climb too.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:49 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
EPA’s new guidance to engine manufacturers will reduce derating — an automatic trigger forcing the engine to operate at a reduced capacity far below its capability — and increase the amount of time operators have to secure DEF and refuel while retaining the environmental benefits for farm equipment and trucks.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:51 pm to BoostAddict
The same group that pushed for DEF didn’t account for how much cardboard and plastic is now in landfills.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:54 pm to Bawpaw
quote:
The same group that pushed for DEF didn’t account for how much cardboard and plastic is now in landfills.
Do they ever?
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:54 pm to Bawpaw
That group didn’t care about plastic and cardboard. They only cared about lining their pockets. It was all a scam and we pay the prices for our government pushing this BS. I’ve lost countless hours because of equipment derating. There’s a special place in hell for those that pushed this DEF crap.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:55 pm to member12
That sure does read like they aren't actually changing anything except delay derate for a DEF level fault, which is literally the only one that occurs solely due to operator stupidity, and is the only one that I am 100% ok with the engine derating for. Making stupid decisions should have stupid consequences.
That doesn't do anything for getting a derate warning because a NOx sensor went out of range or because the DEF quality sensor went haywire, which are where the real problems with aftertreatment systems are.
People who want aftertreatment to go away have zero understanding of how it works or what it accomplishes. You get rid of DEF, you are back to shitloads of EGR, horrible fuel economy, and busted up garbage engines like we had prior to 2008. Do you REALLY want 11mpg and worn out engines at 100k miles so you don't have to buy DEF?
That doesn't do anything for getting a derate warning because a NOx sensor went out of range or because the DEF quality sensor went haywire, which are where the real problems with aftertreatment systems are.
People who want aftertreatment to go away have zero understanding of how it works or what it accomplishes. You get rid of DEF, you are back to shitloads of EGR, horrible fuel economy, and busted up garbage engines like we had prior to 2008. Do you REALLY want 11mpg and worn out engines at 100k miles so you don't have to buy DEF?
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:56 pm to BoostAddict
I VOTED FOR THIS!!!
Posted on 8/12/25 at 1:59 pm to BoostAddict
A buddy has a small concrete pumping business in Dallas. A couple years ago he upgraded to a brand new boom truck ($500k). A few months in he had a def sensor issue. Thing was a beached whale until they could get the backordered sensor. Jobs cancelled, employees still on payroll, bank still wanting their payments.
Talk about kneecapping the American economy.
Talk about kneecapping the American economy.
This post was edited on 8/12/25 at 2:01 pm
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:25 pm to Turnblad85
You oughta see the implications of having this stuff installed in a ship.
But, we really need to just accept that DEF is here to stay. It isn't going away. What we can hope for is the derates and fines and ridiculous controls restrictions to be relaxed.
But, we really need to just accept that DEF is here to stay. It isn't going away. What we can hope for is the derates and fines and ridiculous controls restrictions to be relaxed.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:29 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
EPA Chief, Lee Zeldin, announced two weeks that they plan on rescinding the Endangerment Finding from 2009. This could open the flood gates on how we deal with emissions. I believe the 45 day window for public comment ends in September
EPA Article
EPA Article
This post was edited on 8/12/25 at 2:39 pm
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:30 pm to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
accept that DEF is here to stay
I admit I'm not very knowledgeable on the diesel systems. One thing I would like to know, does a Def system really result in cleaner air?
If so, that makes the extra expense and trouble more digestible. I like clean air. I like for my kids to breath clean air.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:31 pm to BoostAddict
Nothing like forcing people to put piss in their car for emissions.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:35 pm to Turnblad85
quote:
One thing I would like to know, does a Def system really result in cleaner air?
I guess it depends on what you define as pollutants. The SCR system (which is what the big can on the exhaust pipe is that consumes DEF as a reductant) reduces free nitrous oxides in the exhaust stream to negligble levels. The DPF system (the smaler can in the exhaust pipe which is a catalyst/filter) dramatically reduces particulates in the exhaust (soot) by extremely dramatic levels.
My truck has 100k miles on it and you can rub your finger on the inside of the tailpipe and it won't turn black. I don't remember the exact numbers but current "emissions" of diesels (NOx and PM) are something like 15,000% lower than a pre-2002 non-emissions controlled diesel engine.
Posted on 8/12/25 at 2:37 pm to ozktgr
quote:
that they plan on rescinding the Endangerment Find from 2009
Yea, that is very big news with potentially significant implications.
My only issue with our emissions standards is that we kneecap ourselves economically when China and India have no such regulations and can pollute enough to more than offset the improvements the US and Europe have made in the past 30 years.
If we are really serious about all this save the planet crap, we should be sanctioning the shite out of China and India.
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