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The west is the south

Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:14 pm
Posted by justaniceguy
Member since Sep 2020
7112 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:14 pm
quote:


American historians often write of a contrast between the South, a closed reactionary society, and the West, free and open and characteristically American.

The dichotomy thus presented is a false one. The West is the South. That is, to the extent that the West is a theatre for heroic action, rather than just a place to start a new business, it is the Old South transmitted to a new environment.

The cowboy, to the degree that he represents the embodiment of a code of life rather than just a person who tends animals, is nothing more or less than the Virginia gentleman on the plains.

It is no accident that the most famous Western novel, written by a Pennsylvanian, Owen Wister, and set in Wyoming, was called The Virginian; nor that the most memorable character in Robert Service’s Alaska poems was from Tennessee; nor that John Wayne’s best Western movie, The Searchers, begins in 1865 with the hero riding up to his prairie home in tattered gray.

But the Southernness of the American West is not just in the realm of romance. The romance in this case merely reflects the facts. Boone, Crockett, Lewis and Clark, the heroes of the Alamo, Kit Carson, Jim Bridger, Jesse James, nearly all the epic heroes of the frontier were Southerners.

The “cowboy humorist” Will Rogers was the son of a captain in the Confederacy’s Cherokee brigade.

You will hear nothing except Southern accents today on America’s only remaining frontier, the North Shore oil fields.

We repeat: The West is only Western because it is Southern, because it bears the impress of the culture of the Old South rather than the Old North.

That is why Oklahoma produces cowboys, oil wildcatters, country music singers, writers and scholars, evangelists and outlaws, and Kansas produces wheat and an occasional communist.


LINK

No more of this texas and Oklahoma is not the south nonsense.
Posted by OldHickory
New Orleans
Member since Apr 2012
10807 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:20 pm to
The West Shall Rise Again just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
Posted by justaniceguy
Member since Sep 2020
7112 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:22 pm to
True.
Posted by Oilfieldbiology
Member since Nov 2016
42003 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:25 pm to
quote:

American historians often write of a contrast between the South, a closed reactionary society, and the West, free and open and characteristically American.


No matter what actually happens in the South, academia will never view the south as equals or peers to the other areas of the country. frick em.
Posted by TriStateAreaFootball
Member since Dec 2024
2137 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:27 pm to
quote:

The cowboy, to the degree that he represents the embodiment of a code of life rather than just a person who tends animals, is nothing more or less than the Virginia gentleman on the plains.

It is no accident that the most famous Western novel, written by a Pennsylvanian, Owen Wister, and set in Wyoming, was called The Virginian; nor that the most memorable character in Robert Service’s Alaska poems was from Tennessee; nor that John Wayne’s best Western movie, The Searchers, begins in 1865 with the hero riding up to his prairie home in tattered gray.

I have loved both of your threads topics so far today. I inherently disagree with the premise of the first one, but I appreciate the discussion.

The quote above should have influenced your opinion in your original thread more than it did.

Virginia IS the South. Virginia is the "Old Dominion". It is the original Southern State. There is a reason that the Confederate emblem is George Washington on his horse. There is a reason that the Virginia Battle Flag is understood as "the Confederate flag" despite the state flag of Alabama being the official flag of the Confederate government.

Natural beauty and Southern aristocracy in one place. Go to Charlottesville, Lexington, Lynchburg, Richmond, etc. if you have the opportunity.


The problem you are finding is that the nicer the area is in the South, the more non-southerners move there and dilute the culture. The same is true for Virginia.
This post was edited on 3/27/25 at 2:29 pm
Posted by northshorebamaman
Cochise County AZ
Member since Jul 2009
38144 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:28 pm to
He seems to have a very narrow view of "the west" which seems to actually be the "old west" (Texas, NM, AZ, CO, etc...).
Posted by justaniceguy
Member since Sep 2020
7112 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:29 pm to
There are confederate monuments in Montana and Wyoming I believe.

They were originally settled by a mixed group of people, with many southern, but over time it has definitely faded. Even New Mexico doesn’t feel that southern anymore I don’t think.
Posted by Shexter
Prairieville
Member since Feb 2014
20107 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:30 pm to
quote:

and Kansas produces wheat and an occasional communist


Kansas a southern state?

quote:

Kansas was not a Confederate state; it was admitted to the Union as a free state on January 29, 1861, and fought on the Union side during the Civil War.


Written by Guy Story Brown?

quote:

Guy Story Brown
Guy Story Brown (1948-2015) was one of M.E. Bradford's students at the University of Dallas.


That explains it
Posted by SuperSaint
Sorting Out OT BS Since '2007'
Member since Sep 2007
149564 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:32 pm to
quote:

the culture of the Old South
the New South is obesity, EBT cards, potholes, football, and corruption.
Posted by northshorebamaman
Cochise County AZ
Member since Jul 2009
38144 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:34 pm to
quote:

They were originally settled by a mixed group of people, with many southern, but over time it has definitely faded.
The Mormon impact and influence on the settlement of the west is massive, and, their culture was/is strongly communal, especially contrasted with the south. Do they even get a mention?
This post was edited on 3/27/25 at 2:36 pm
Posted by justaniceguy
Member since Sep 2020
7112 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:36 pm to
Yep, it is a sad reality. Even in Texas which is where I have always lived the southern influence has waned in my short lifetime. I am sure it was a lot more southern when my father was growing up.

I would like to live somewhere that I can be proud to be a southerner, where the confederacy isn’t shamed, and where people get along and it is a nice place to live. I know there are many out there but they are diminishing. Always have been I guess.

Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana make up a different kinda south than states like Virginia, the Carolina’s, Georgia. And then Alabama and Mississippi and Tennessee are sort of the middle ground. But we are all more or less the same people, and we have more in common than we do w/ the rest of the country.

And it seems that where we come from plays a big part in who we are. We are fundamentally a different people than northerners in a way. The puritans, their descendants, and then all of the European immigrants they brought in and in a way washed a lot of their culture away. The south never got so many immigrants, except in certain places, and they still kind of blended in rather than making a completely new thing.
Posted by justaniceguy
Member since Sep 2020
7112 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:37 pm to
His point was that Kansas is a northern state and Oklahoma is a southern state.
Posted by Faurot fodder
Member since Jul 2019
6901 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:37 pm to
So, St. Louis is the gateway to the South?
Posted by justaniceguy
Member since Sep 2020
7112 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:38 pm to
I don’t know much about their history and it seems they were most prominent in Utah.

I am generally anti Mormon and Utah doesn’t seem like a place I would particularly like. Two extremes, the Mormon and the anti Mormon, which is like the worst rabid leftist you could fathom.
Posted by justaniceguy
Member since Sep 2020
7112 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:38 pm to
Jesse James was from Missouri!

Parts of Missouri are certainly southern. It isn’t as black and white as “Union state, not southern”.
Posted by LSUtoBOOT
Member since Aug 2012
19963 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:38 pm to
It’s a damn shame the cowboys didn’t settle out west, California would be in better shape.
Posted by Saunson69
Stephen the Pirate
Member since May 2023
8230 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:39 pm to
Who cares to waste their time writing up an article like this? What does it even matter? It is what it is, no need to draw up some dramatic labels for shock value.
Posted by TriStateAreaFootball
Member since Dec 2024
2137 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:42 pm to
you did not have to respond if it did not interest you.
Posted by justaniceguy
Member since Sep 2020
7112 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:43 pm to
We like history. Go watch your marvel movie. The adults are speaking.
Posted by cgrand
HAMMOND
Member since Oct 2009
48127 posts
Posted on 3/27/25 at 2:45 pm to
quote:

The south never got so many immigrants, except in certain places, and they still kind of blended in rather than making a completely new thing.
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