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Started By
Message
Better at stopping active shooters: Police or Civilians carrying firearms?
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:00 pm
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:00 pm
The Federalist
TLDR - Civilians are better. Feathers will be ruffled but this shouldn't surprise anyone, it's logical.
Article by John Lott, highlights below.
Study: Concealed Carriers Do A Better Job Of Stopping Active Shooters Than Police
We found that concealed carry permit holders stopped 51.5 percent of active shootings, compared to 44.6 percent stopped by police.
You’d never know it from watching television, but civilians stop more active shooters than police and do so with fewer mistakes, according to new research from the Crime Prevention Research Center, where I serve as president. In non-gun-free zones, where civilians are legally able to carry guns, concealed carry permit holders stopped 51.5 percent of active shootings, compared to 44.6 percent stopped by police,
Not only do permit holders succeed in stopping active shooters at a higher rate, but law enforcement officers face significantly greater risks when intervening. Our research found police were nearly six times more likely to be killed and 17 percent more likely to be wounded than armed civilians.
Of the 180 total instances where an armed civilian stopped an active shooting, did permit holders end up accidentally shooting bystanders? In just one case (0.56 percent).
Did they interfere with police? In zero cases (0.0 percent).
Did they lose their lives in the confrontation? In two cases (1.1 percent).
Were they injured while saving lives? In 44 cases (24.4 percent).
Was the shooting they prevented likely to be a mass public shooting? In 58 cases (32 percent).
Did they have their gun taken away? In one case (0.56 percent).
In the 156 cases stopped by law enforcement, we found police accidentally shot the wrong person in four cases, killing fellow officers twice and civilians twice. That’s more than double the rate of civilians accidentally shooting a bystander (1.14 percent compared to 0.56 percent).
According to our research, 27 police were shot and killed while trying to stop an active shooter, a 7.7 percent rate, which is nearly six times higher than the rate for permit holders.
Concealed handgun permit holders aren’t reckless vigilantes, but they are law-abiding citizens who step up in moments of crisis when seconds matter and police are minutes away.
TLDR - Civilians are better. Feathers will be ruffled but this shouldn't surprise anyone, it's logical.
Article by John Lott, highlights below.
Study: Concealed Carriers Do A Better Job Of Stopping Active Shooters Than Police
We found that concealed carry permit holders stopped 51.5 percent of active shootings, compared to 44.6 percent stopped by police.
You’d never know it from watching television, but civilians stop more active shooters than police and do so with fewer mistakes, according to new research from the Crime Prevention Research Center, where I serve as president. In non-gun-free zones, where civilians are legally able to carry guns, concealed carry permit holders stopped 51.5 percent of active shootings, compared to 44.6 percent stopped by police,
Not only do permit holders succeed in stopping active shooters at a higher rate, but law enforcement officers face significantly greater risks when intervening. Our research found police were nearly six times more likely to be killed and 17 percent more likely to be wounded than armed civilians.
Of the 180 total instances where an armed civilian stopped an active shooting, did permit holders end up accidentally shooting bystanders? In just one case (0.56 percent).
Did they interfere with police? In zero cases (0.0 percent).
Did they lose their lives in the confrontation? In two cases (1.1 percent).
Were they injured while saving lives? In 44 cases (24.4 percent).
Was the shooting they prevented likely to be a mass public shooting? In 58 cases (32 percent).
Did they have their gun taken away? In one case (0.56 percent).
In the 156 cases stopped by law enforcement, we found police accidentally shot the wrong person in four cases, killing fellow officers twice and civilians twice. That’s more than double the rate of civilians accidentally shooting a bystander (1.14 percent compared to 0.56 percent).
According to our research, 27 police were shot and killed while trying to stop an active shooter, a 7.7 percent rate, which is nearly six times higher than the rate for permit holders.
Concealed handgun permit holders aren’t reckless vigilantes, but they are law-abiding citizens who step up in moments of crisis when seconds matter and police are minutes away.
15
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:01 pm to POTUS2024
quote:Im going with the bullet
Better at stopping active shooters: Police or Civilians carrying firearms?
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:04 pm to POTUS2024
Are civilians trained to stop active shooters?
No.
No.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:05 pm to L1C4
quote:
L1C4
Are you retarded?
Yes
Eta: lol just remembered you're A BabyTac buddy.
This post was edited on 3/18/25 at 6:08 pm
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:08 pm to POTUS2024
More Guns, Less Crime.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:08 pm to ManBearTiger
I'll repeat the question, Are civilians trained to stop active shooters?
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:10 pm to L1C4
quote:
Are civilians trained to stop active shooters?
Many are, yes.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:10 pm to POTUS2024
A few Saturdays back, there was a shooting in the Woodlands Resort area. The shooter was grabbed by two unarmed men, taken down. This was after three people were shot. All three people survived, thanks to the two unarmed men.
Shooting at the Woodlands
A little more
Shooting at the Woodlands
A little more
This post was edited on 3/18/25 at 6:13 pm
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:10 pm to L1C4
quote:
Are civilians trained to stop active shooters?
No.
They aren't trained to do it but manage to do it better than those that are trained. Sounds like you want every LEO fired for incompetence. Is that your position here?
(Of all the stupid responses I expected, I did not expect one to be this stupid.)
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:14 pm to POTUS2024
quote:
They aren't trained to do it but manage to do it better than those that are trained. Sounds like you want every LEO fired for incompetence
One of the guys that took the shooter down, Ex-Military.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:14 pm to POTUS2024
quote:That's quite the spin.
Sounds like you want every LEO fired for incompetence.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:19 pm to POTUS2024
Give me both, but definitely concealed carry more.
There are plenty of heroes out there that don’t wear a uniform. Not to mention, if there’s even the hint that other people can shoot back, these cowards avoid at all costs.
Just look at all the violence in “gun free zones.”
There are plenty of heroes out there that don’t wear a uniform. Not to mention, if there’s even the hint that other people can shoot back, these cowards avoid at all costs.
Just look at all the violence in “gun free zones.”
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:19 pm to L1C4
Lol he even said “every.” And then goes on to double down to accuse someone else’s post being more stupid than he could’ve envisioned.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:19 pm to POTUS2024
quote:
They aren't trained to do it but manage to do it better than those that are trained. Sounds like you want every LEO fired for incompetence
This guy is the only one in the room trained to operate his gun!
I just want to see his foot!
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:20 pm to L1C4
quote:
Are civilians trained to stop active shooters?
No.
So the untrained group is better than the trained one?
What point are you trying to make with that question?
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:21 pm to POTUS2024
Of course civilians are better. And that's exactly what the founding fathers intended.
The police almost always make the situation worse and shoot innocent people in the process.
Civilians have skin in the game and want to quickly eliminate the threat. Cops just want to fire as many rounds as possible. They don't care who they kill.
The police almost always make the situation worse and shoot innocent people in the process.
Civilians have skin in the game and want to quickly eliminate the threat. Cops just want to fire as many rounds as possible. They don't care who they kill.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:22 pm to POTUS2024
I’m going with Police as they actively go to the range and have free munitions. Hopefully they have occasional active shooter training provided.
I have my go to Glock but I don’t shoot like I did in the day. Training is essential and the more the better.
Also I’m referring to the average non military trained combat citizen of whom I would hope most would agree in this.
I fully like citizens to be able to carry and defend but wonder how many are spot on capable with the firearm?
My first Cousin for instance. Has more weapons than the Vietcong did and I wish he had only an air soft gun.
I have my go to Glock but I don’t shoot like I did in the day. Training is essential and the more the better.
Also I’m referring to the average non military trained combat citizen of whom I would hope most would agree in this.
I fully like citizens to be able to carry and defend but wonder how many are spot on capable with the firearm?
My first Cousin for instance. Has more weapons than the Vietcong did and I wish he had only an air soft gun.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:22 pm to L1C4
quote:
I'll repeat the question, Are civilians trained to stop active shooters?
I have taken several handgun defense courses and an advanced carbine course. Try to shoot as often as I can. I am pretty confident bad guy would be at a disadvantage if we had an encounter. Not everyone trains but many do. You don’t have to be an expert just proficient with your weapon.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:24 pm to GRTiger
It’s not about training or any of that. It’s all about the element of surprise. Cops know this. The bad guys ALWAYS get to choose the time and place of their actions and always have the first draw due to the element of surprise. Concealed holders have that same element which the bad guy can’t plan for. Police wear uniforms and blast sirens so the bad guy has plenty of time to form a mini plan and knows his target. A CCW holder comes out of nowhere. That’s why I NEVER let anyone know I have a gun. It’s all about getting off the first shot.
Posted on 3/18/25 at 6:28 pm to POTUS2024
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