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Harbaugh - 9 years; Smart - 6 years; Dabo - 10 years
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:34 am
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:34 am
Maybe Kelly isn't the dude, but maybe he also deserves some more time to keep building a program. It took some of these great coaches a while to build their programs, and one bounced after winning a natty.
21
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:39 am to LSUZombie
When were they contenders?
These are the years they held the crystal ball.
We aren’t in control of our own destiny at this time.
I get it. Kelly is our guy and probably the best option. But he’s allowed to get criticism.
These are the years they held the crystal ball.
We aren’t in control of our own destiny at this time.
I get it. Kelly is our guy and probably the best option. But he’s allowed to get criticism.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:39 am to LSUZombie
It doesn't seem like Harbaugh was at Michigan nine years. Time is flying.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:39 am to LSUZombie
It's a different world now. You can literally buy an entire team now and transform virtually overnight. Look at Vandy and Miami
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:41 am to LSUZombie
They all were in a big bowl game in their 3rd or 4th year. We’ll continue to go to the Cheez it bowl
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:42 am to LSUZombie
Seasons since school’s last national championship when coach was hired:
Harbaugh - 17
Kirby Smart - 35
Dabo - 27
Kelly - 2
Harbaugh - 17
Kirby Smart - 35
Dabo - 27
Kelly - 2
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:43 am to LSUZombie
For the record, I've never liked the Kelly hire; however, I believe the whole "3 year thing" is played out.
I also believe he is learning quickly from these mistakes so as to not repeat them going forward. He does appear somewhat lazy as a coach, but the next two years should be better for us.
And if this recruiting class holds at #1 or #2, could be a boon to our program and that is exciting to me.
I also believe he is learning quickly from these mistakes so as to not repeat them going forward. He does appear somewhat lazy as a coach, but the next two years should be better for us.
And if this recruiting class holds at #1 or #2, could be a boon to our program and that is exciting to me.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:43 am to LSUZombie
Kirby is not a great coach. I’ve never seen a team struggle as much as UGA has since he’s been there. They squeak out multiple games a year that could easily end up being two losses on top of the yearly loss to Bama. They’ve just been able to buy all the 5 stars for the past six years. They win on talent in spite of Kirby’s coaching.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:44 am to LSUZombie
Why use the year they won their first National Title as the measuring stick to when they built their programs?
The year they start winning at a consistently high level is when they had their programs built. For Kirby, that was year 2, for Dabo that was year 5, for Harbaugh that was year 7.
The year they start winning at a consistently high level is when they had their programs built. For Kirby, that was year 2, for Dabo that was year 5, for Harbaugh that was year 7.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:45 am to TigahTeeth
quote:
Kirby is not a great coach.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 10:59 am to LSUZombie
I think we need to view any coach through two lenses.
1. Does he have the program at a level that can compete for championships?
2. Can he coach the team and get the results to win a championship?
For Kelly, he is definitely not there for #1, at least not yet. The recruiting certainly is trending in a direction to get there, but development is another issue and for some reason we are not seeing the develop we need on the O Line. The secondary has shown improvement and I am hopeful that all we are missing is the raw talent, but that’s the second area of concern.
For #2, I have real concerns about our ability to scheme against a running QB. Whether that is Kelly or Baker IDK but they need to really reflect on what is happening and make some serious adjustments. Since Kelly has been here he has shown decent ability to make in game adjustments (except against running QBs), and hasn’t made head scratching in game decisions like Les or been too stubborn to course correct. I think Kelly is likely good enough in this area as long as he understands that their schemes against running QBs are not nearly good enough. Side note on this, he has to have the team better prepared for week 1 games, that is certainly another issue with him.
Judging previous LSU coaches against these criteria:
Orgeron
#1 - mid - while he did oversee the creation of a great team and was a great recruiter, he was awful at the day in and day out program operational aspects. This resulted in complacency after the championship and massive talent drain.
#2 - below average - the highlight of his abilities here was that he know he wasn’t good on offense so he completely handed over the reigns to Coach E who will never get enough credit - the man should have a statue. He was a below average coach on defense that made things worse by meddling in the DCs role.
Les
#1 - Exceptional - he was a great recruiter and a great at football ops. He was also great in talent development in all areas except QB which is his only knock against him in this category. Who knew that you have to let a QB throw the ball in order to get better at throwing the ball?
#2 - below average - he made really bad decision with timeouts. He was a one trick pony on game planning, however the scheme was a winning strategy more often than not - ball possession, heavy rung game, wear down defense.
Saban- expert at both. Enough said.
1. Does he have the program at a level that can compete for championships?
2. Can he coach the team and get the results to win a championship?
For Kelly, he is definitely not there for #1, at least not yet. The recruiting certainly is trending in a direction to get there, but development is another issue and for some reason we are not seeing the develop we need on the O Line. The secondary has shown improvement and I am hopeful that all we are missing is the raw talent, but that’s the second area of concern.
For #2, I have real concerns about our ability to scheme against a running QB. Whether that is Kelly or Baker IDK but they need to really reflect on what is happening and make some serious adjustments. Since Kelly has been here he has shown decent ability to make in game adjustments (except against running QBs), and hasn’t made head scratching in game decisions like Les or been too stubborn to course correct. I think Kelly is likely good enough in this area as long as he understands that their schemes against running QBs are not nearly good enough. Side note on this, he has to have the team better prepared for week 1 games, that is certainly another issue with him.
Judging previous LSU coaches against these criteria:
Orgeron
#1 - mid - while he did oversee the creation of a great team and was a great recruiter, he was awful at the day in and day out program operational aspects. This resulted in complacency after the championship and massive talent drain.
#2 - below average - the highlight of his abilities here was that he know he wasn’t good on offense so he completely handed over the reigns to Coach E who will never get enough credit - the man should have a statue. He was a below average coach on defense that made things worse by meddling in the DCs role.
Les
#1 - Exceptional - he was a great recruiter and a great at football ops. He was also great in talent development in all areas except QB which is his only knock against him in this category. Who knew that you have to let a QB throw the ball in order to get better at throwing the ball?
#2 - below average - he made really bad decision with timeouts. He was a one trick pony on game planning, however the scheme was a winning strategy more often than not - ball possession, heavy rung game, wear down defense.
Saban- expert at both. Enough said.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:00 am to dstone12
quote:
When were they contenders?
Would that really matter here? If LSU were contenders the past three years and had nothing to show for it, the same posters would be calling for Kelly to be fired.
quote:
But he’s allowed to get criticism
Totally agree. His criticism is more than earned. What isn't though is the unrealistic "he needs to win a championship in three years"
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:01 am to LSUbasketballfan
quote:
Harbaugh - 17
Kirby Smart - 35
Dabo - 27
Kelly - 2
I love that some pretend that Kelly inherited a team like Miles did after Saban.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:02 am to dstone12
Do Orgeron.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:03 am to LSUZombie
Do Les.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:05 am to LSUZombie
quote:
Would that really matter here? If LSU were contenders the past three years and had nothing to show for it, the same posters would be calling for Kelly to be fired.
I do not think you understand what’s going to be said when we play a big10 team in the cheesy bowl.
Missing the 12 team playoff is not good.
He said that year three was the year for accountability.
quote:
“You could say, ‘Well I inherited a tough situation.’ But in the year of our Lord 2024, you don’t get to say that in Year 3,” Staples said. “If you don’t like your roster in Year 3, that is your fault. If there are guys that you feel like we probably shouldn’t be playing right now, that’s your fault for not recruiting over them, not getting guys out of the portal to replace them.”
This post was edited on 11/15/24 at 11:07 am
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:07 am to LSUZombie
Kelly took over a program in shambles, that much is true.
But if you acknowledge that you must also acknowledge the fact that LSU recruits very well and has enough talent to score more than 1 touchdown and a couple field goals against Bama in Tiger Stadium at night towards the end of year three under Kelly.
Kelly didn't have his team prepared and usually doesn't have his team prepared for big games. Gotta acknowledge that one as well. Whether it's directly his fault or the fault of his coordinators, he's still at the top and it falls on him to ensure it all comes together.
He has not accomplished that yet and in year three of a program recruiting as well as it is, that's concerning.
But if you acknowledge that you must also acknowledge the fact that LSU recruits very well and has enough talent to score more than 1 touchdown and a couple field goals against Bama in Tiger Stadium at night towards the end of year three under Kelly.
Kelly didn't have his team prepared and usually doesn't have his team prepared for big games. Gotta acknowledge that one as well. Whether it's directly his fault or the fault of his coordinators, he's still at the top and it falls on him to ensure it all comes together.
He has not accomplished that yet and in year three of a program recruiting as well as it is, that's concerning.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:07 am to LSUZombie
quote:
Harbaugh - 9 years; Smart - 6 years; Dabo - 10 years
Maybe Kelly isn't the dude, but maybe he also deserves some more time to keep building a program. It took some of these great coaches a while to build their programs, and one bounced after winning a natty.
This is the post of the day...
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:08 am to dstone12
quote:
When were they contenders?
Harbaugh year 9
Dabo Year 8
Smart Year 2 they played for a Natty but then weren’t in contention again until year 6.
Posted on 11/15/24 at 11:09 am to LSUZombie
Kirby had Georgia a Hail Mary away from winning the title in his second year and they were a consistent top 5 team from then on. They made the SEC title game in a win and get in scenario every year from then on.
Dabo and Harbaugh are good comps. They both hovered around 3 losses a year for the first 5-6 seasons before breaking through with elite teams in like year 7.
Dabo was such a different time though. Harbaugh is your best comp for sure if you want to remain bullish on Kelly. But the caveat is you could never doubt how much Harbaugh cared and was dedicated to Michigan winning given his ties to Michigan. The Kelly/Jimbo parallels seem much more likely.
Dabo and Harbaugh are good comps. They both hovered around 3 losses a year for the first 5-6 seasons before breaking through with elite teams in like year 7.
Dabo was such a different time though. Harbaugh is your best comp for sure if you want to remain bullish on Kelly. But the caveat is you could never doubt how much Harbaugh cared and was dedicated to Michigan winning given his ties to Michigan. The Kelly/Jimbo parallels seem much more likely.
This post was edited on 11/15/24 at 11:11 am
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