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Message
Abortion as a political issue
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:02 pm
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:02 pm
Speaking strictly politically. It's important to make sure when looking at issues like abortion, to understand the issue is not this binary issue for voters.
1) what % of voters are supportive of the Trump platform but won't vote for him because of abortion? But could be swayed to vote for him if he was more pro-choice?
2) What % of pro-life voters could be lost due to being demoralized, after hearing Republicans use Democrat language like "reproductive rights"?
3) If abortion is someone's main issue, what would it take for them to be convinced to vote for Trump over Harris? Ate there even votes to be mined from this demographic that is being appealed to?
4) What would a Republican or Trump have to say or do for them not to be blamed for every single contrived, sob story about some girl that couldn't get an abortion.
5) Overall, is it more important for Trump to fire up his base, or to try and demoralize his base, by going hard after soft squishy voters? Is base turnout more important than winning the undecided?
6) Is it a smart strategy to alienate your number one grassroots, activist group that provides key support and resource in states where it's most needed like Georgia, Arizona, and Pennsyvania
1) what % of voters are supportive of the Trump platform but won't vote for him because of abortion? But could be swayed to vote for him if he was more pro-choice?
2) What % of pro-life voters could be lost due to being demoralized, after hearing Republicans use Democrat language like "reproductive rights"?
3) If abortion is someone's main issue, what would it take for them to be convinced to vote for Trump over Harris? Ate there even votes to be mined from this demographic that is being appealed to?
4) What would a Republican or Trump have to say or do for them not to be blamed for every single contrived, sob story about some girl that couldn't get an abortion.
5) Overall, is it more important for Trump to fire up his base, or to try and demoralize his base, by going hard after soft squishy voters? Is base turnout more important than winning the undecided?
6) Is it a smart strategy to alienate your number one grassroots, activist group that provides key support and resource in states where it's most needed like Georgia, Arizona, and Pennsyvania
This post was edited on 8/26/24 at 10:04 pm
18
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:05 pm to burger bearcat
It’s too late for all the waffling bullshite. Trump has stated many times that it should be decided at the state level
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:07 pm to burger bearcat
Sounds like you're seeing the same stuff tonight I am.
I don't think it's going to be determinative/impactful, but tonight we've got a lot of MAGA influencers who weren't involved in conservative politics/ideology before 2016 openly attacking long term hard right social conservatives over their objections to the incessant caving of the Trump campaign on abortion to try and suck up to suburban women (I note that this is just a massive departure from Trump's approach on everything else).
I think the compromise was pretty easy and easy to sell when it was "I handed it back to the states where it belongs, I'm personally pro-life." I also think politically the amount of ground gained by continuing to go to the well and pouring water on state bans, using the left's language, etc. is minimal.
I don't think it's going to be determinative/impactful, but tonight we've got a lot of MAGA influencers who weren't involved in conservative politics/ideology before 2016 openly attacking long term hard right social conservatives over their objections to the incessant caving of the Trump campaign on abortion to try and suck up to suburban women (I note that this is just a massive departure from Trump's approach on everything else).
I think the compromise was pretty easy and easy to sell when it was "I handed it back to the states where it belongs, I'm personally pro-life." I also think politically the amount of ground gained by continuing to go to the well and pouring water on state bans, using the left's language, etc. is minimal.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:28 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
what % of voters are supportive of the Trump platform but won't vote for him because of abortion? But could be swayed to vote for him if he was more pro-choice?
I maintain that Trump going soft on abortion won't make any difference at all to any single issue voters this election. Nothing he says at this point is going to make them go, "Wait! I know the media keeps saying he's going to sign a federal abortion ban, but look! He's reversed his whole stance now...it's safe to vote for Trump now. Yeah!"
That's just not going to happen.
They'll say, "How stupid does he think we are?" And I wouldn't blame them.
quote:
If abortion is someone's main issue, what would it take for them to be convinced to vote for Trump over Harris?
Nothing. Like I have been posting, if every single Republican in America did a 180 degree turn right this second, it would take 10 years before any of those voters would trust it.
quote:
What % of pro-life voters could be lost due to being demoralized, after hearing Republicans use Democrat language like "reproductive rights"?
Who knows? I hear daily that everyone here hates Republicans so badly that they wouldn't piss down their throats if their guts were on fire specifically because for decades they did stuff exactly like this (backing off of holding the line on conservative values) to get along in Washington.
Now everybody wants them to do it again on this issue. Which is one of very few issues that they have successfully advanced in a couple of decades.
So who the hell knows what these people want? Clearly they don't even know themselves.
This post was edited on 8/26/24 at 10:30 pm
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:31 pm to Pettifogger
quote:
I think the compromise was pretty easy and easy to sell when it was "I handed it back to the states where it belongs, I'm personally pro-life."
Absolutely.
The message should be, "It is not true that I would sign a federal abortion ban and there are no plans for anyone to introduce one. Voters have the ability to petition their state governments to reflect their wishes on this matter and we won't interfere with that ability."
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:33 pm to burger bearcat
It's the perfect divisive issue to keep people occupied. Meanwhile, the government fails on healthcare, housing, education, etc.
This post was edited on 8/26/24 at 10:34 pm
Posted on 8/26/24 at 10:37 pm to JackaReaux
exactly
Trump has said that no one in Washington D.C. should be involved in that decision.
Women outnumber men in every state, they have the power to decide how they want it.
Trump has said that no one in Washington D.C. should be involved in that decision.
Women outnumber men in every state, they have the power to decide how they want it.
Posted on 8/26/24 at 11:17 pm to JackaReaux
quote:
Trump has stated many times that it should be decided at the state level
Only if life begins at the "state level."
Posted on 8/26/24 at 11:24 pm to burger bearcat
You’d have to sit people down and give them a quick lesson.
But they won’t listen to you anyway because this is the only thing they care about in politics.
Kamala Harris will not make abortion legal. The democrats have had multiple chances to do that, including under the Biden Harris administration.
Also if it’s left as a states rights issue, there is no banning it federally.
The I want government out of it is a fallacy. You are actually requesting government to get involved. Since it’s a medical service and a business, that will come with regulations and insurance. So government is involved.
But they won’t listen to you anyway because this is the only thing they care about in politics.
Kamala Harris will not make abortion legal. The democrats have had multiple chances to do that, including under the Biden Harris administration.
Also if it’s left as a states rights issue, there is no banning it federally.
The I want government out of it is a fallacy. You are actually requesting government to get involved. Since it’s a medical service and a business, that will come with regulations and insurance. So government is involved.
This post was edited on 8/26/24 at 11:28 pm
Posted on 8/26/24 at 11:30 pm to wackatimesthree
You sure do spend a lot of time caring about this stuff when you said no matter who you vote for you are getting a Marxist.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 6:43 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I don't think it's going to be determinative/impactful, but tonight we've got a lot of MAGA influencers who weren't involved in conservative politics/ideology before 2016 openly attacking long term hard right social conservatives over their objections to the incessant caving of the Trump campaign on abortion to try and suck up to suburban women (I note that this is just a massive departure from Trump's approach on everything else).
Politics is about building alliances and coalitions, and gaining excitement with your base. You can reach out to moderates, but never at the expense of tlyour base.
Yes, it's true that social conservatives have no where else to go at the moment. However, you don't want to demoralize your most ardent voting bloc. If.you look at the breakdown from 2020, the number one issue that Trump had was getting out his base in the numbers he was expecting.
Using language like "Reproductive Rights" is not how you fire up your base.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 8:10 am to burger bearcat
My mother is not voting for this election because she knows the dems support pro choice
And
Trump has bent the knee on his abortion language
And
Trump has bent the knee on his abortion language
Posted on 8/27/24 at 8:39 am to bleedsgarnet
I don't think there are many like your mom, but there will be some.
And it's probably avoidable. Trump probably has a much easier path to hanging on to your mom's vote than he does winning over pro choice types. Add to that that this fracturing has the potential to disrupt the coalition post-November, and I just don't see the value in continuing to move the discussion to the left.
Of course, there is the possibility that Trump and/or those core to the movement want the fight with the hard right and if pro-lifers won't pledge utmost fealty to Trump/MAGA, they'll be forced to go elsewhere. I think that is certainly the calculation of some, and I think to some extent it's a fair calculation (they're betting that some of the Christian conservatives will soften their Christian-based stances to stick by the MAGA movement).
It's yet another political frog in a boiling pot.
And it's probably avoidable. Trump probably has a much easier path to hanging on to your mom's vote than he does winning over pro choice types. Add to that that this fracturing has the potential to disrupt the coalition post-November, and I just don't see the value in continuing to move the discussion to the left.
Of course, there is the possibility that Trump and/or those core to the movement want the fight with the hard right and if pro-lifers won't pledge utmost fealty to Trump/MAGA, they'll be forced to go elsewhere. I think that is certainly the calculation of some, and I think to some extent it's a fair calculation (they're betting that some of the Christian conservatives will soften their Christian-based stances to stick by the MAGA movement).
It's yet another political frog in a boiling pot.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 8:40 am to burger bearcat
Personally, I'd rather die than give in to abortion. It's evil and I'll continue to fight against it.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 8:43 am to burger bearcat
Its a losing issue and the Rs need to adjust
This is why morons lile Pedofogger and his fellow bot team were beyond wrong that Desantis would win in a landslide with his national abortion ban
This is why morons lile Pedofogger and his fellow bot team were beyond wrong that Desantis would win in a landslide with his national abortion ban
Posted on 8/27/24 at 8:45 am to burger bearcat
Is murder also a political issue because they're one and the same.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 8:46 am to TrueTiger
Why do we honestly care what women do with their bodies?
Let them make their own mistakes and deal with the fallout.
Let them make their own mistakes and deal with the fallout.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 8:48 am to JackaReaux
quote:
It’s too late for all the waffling bullshite. Trump has stated many times that it should be decided at the state level
Trump has been rock-steady with this.
It’s just that the Marxist Democrats have zero compunction about blatantly lying about Trumps stance in order to fear monger votes away from him
I heard Elizabeth Warren on the radio this morning doing exactly what. She just flat-out lies.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 9:16 am to jizzle6609
Answer this question and I will move on.
If you stick a scalpel in your neighbors brain and kill him, that's murder.
If you stick a scalpel in the brain of a fully developed unborn and kill it, why is that not murder.
A simple explanation will do.
If you stick a scalpel in your neighbors brain and kill him, that's murder.
If you stick a scalpel in the brain of a fully developed unborn and kill it, why is that not murder.
A simple explanation will do.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 9:16 am to Warfox
quote:
Trump has been rock-steady with this.
It’s just that the Marxist Democrats have zero compunction about blatantly lying about Trumps stance in order to fear monger votes away from him
I heard Elizabeth Warren on the radio this morning doing exactly what. She just flat-out lies.
The problem is Trump (and now much of the GOP) wants to live in this neutral zone where they don't want to deal with this issue at all. This is similar to gay marriage 15 years ago.
The left is great at bringing people out and forcing them to take a side. I actually respect them somewhat on how they do this. Republicans and conservatives are chickenshit and frankly lazy. They don't know how to win on tough issues, so they punt and focus on path of least resistance (until that issue also becomes too tough to deal with)
On a national level, you can still he pro-life while recognizing you need to be pragmatic and strategic about how that looks. The focus should be on making sure tax payers resources are not going towards abortion. To provide support to states who are outlawing the practice. To use your bullypit to call out the evils of this practice.
You simply have to take a side. If you refuse to do that, the left is going to define you anyways. If the Republican Party ever gets to the point where they are outwardly supporting abortion and abortion efforts, and talking like Democrats on the issue, I am done with the party and I suspect a good portion of the base is done as well. Hopefully that doesn't happen in my life.
This post was edited on 8/27/24 at 9:17 am
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