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Started By
Message
Guide Boat Capsized on Toledo without a licensed captain
Posted on 5/29/24 at 5:29 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 5:29 pm
LINK
And they are calling the coast guard into investigate?
This is a deal the state made with wl&f.
And they are calling the coast guard into investigate?
This is a deal the state made with wl&f.
This post was edited on 6/5/24 at 2:50 pm
11
Posted on 5/29/24 at 5:35 pm to KemoSabe65
Shame on not having PFDs on.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 5:45 pm to KemoSabe65
I can’t wrap my head around how someone with any shred of experience on the water did not make it priority number one to get everyone into a life jacket as soon as the weather turned.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 5:50 pm to Mister Bigfish
The way the law is written anyone can be for hire on inland waters. Unfortunately this tragedy may make Baton Rouge change their minds.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 5:56 pm to KemoSabe65
This is really sad. These two women were friends of a friend. They were a mother and daughter, from what I understand.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 7:03 pm to choupiquesushi
Was it reported they were not wearing PFD’s? Story I heard was the 2 that drowned had PFD’s on and were sent inside the cabin to get out of the weather when the boat capsized and could not get out. That was told to me by my guide on my trip this morning.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 7:07 pm to KemoSabe65
He going to catch a charge. The news clip said the survivors swam to safety. The article said they held onto the barge. Same page.
News reporting at its best.
A tragedy. Stupid one though. RIP.
News reporting at its best.
A tragedy. Stupid one though. RIP.
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:24 pm to NattyLite
quote:
Story I heard was the 2 that drowned had PFD’s on and were sent inside the cabin to get out of the weather when the boat capsized and could not get out.
Damn that is awful
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:27 pm to KemoSabe65
quote:
The way the law is written anyone can be for hire on inland waters. Unfortunately this tragedy may make Baton Rouge change their minds.
But let’s face it how hard is it to get a “six pack” and what does that really prove. When I got mine in 99-2000 at houston marine in bayou labatre there was a guy who had his sea time on his own boat and couldn’t tie a bowline and he breezed the course. There was a coon arse who was born on a boat been running double riggers and tugs his whole life who was struggling to pass the class.
I can tell you who I would want at the wheel of my boat!!
Posted on 5/29/24 at 8:47 pm to NattyLite
quote:
Story I heard was the 2 that drowned had PFD’s on and were sent inside the cabin to get out of the weather when the boat capsized and could not get ou
I don’t have any information on the specific model boat so I don’t know, but I can’t think of a pontoon boat with a cabin.
This post was edited on 5/29/24 at 8:48 pm
Posted on 5/29/24 at 9:39 pm to KemoSabe65
Anyone know who the guide/outfitter was?
Posted on 5/30/24 at 6:19 am to weisertiger
quote:
but I can’t think of a pontoon boat with a cabin.
Yeah, I’ve never seen one.
Problem with the pontoon boats is they aren’t fast enough to get out of the weather. You’ve got to be watching the radar.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 6:58 am to KemoSabe65
Bad story. It has to be ROUGH to capsize a pontoon boat. I have been on them at Santee Cooper in 3-4s confused and on top of one another and other than being wet as hell the threat of capsizing never seemed imminent. I have been on them in the Carribean in similar conditions and it was the same...uncomfortable but otherwise safe. It doesn't say how it capsized but I would bet under speed and turning.
Getting a 6 pack license is incredibly easy. The main qualification is a log of operating experience which can be produced overnight at the kitchen table. There is nothing in the process to keep someone who is bent that way to pretend to be qualified, study enough to pass the exam and be licensed.
This an excerpt from a mariners school marketing campaign but it is generally all that is required as far as operating time"
1 IS DOCUMENTATION OF SEA TIME REQUIRED FOR A BOAT LICENSE?
Yes. The Coast Guard requires a minimum number of days of experience on the water to qualify for a captain's license. The total number of days required depends on the license you wish to earn.
For the initial license, you need to document at least 360 days of boating experience since you were 16 years old, with at least ninety of those days in the last three years.
2 HOW CAN YOU PROVE YOUR BOATING EXPERIENCE FOR A CAPTAIN'S LICENSE?
Most captain's license applicants self-certify their days of sea time spent aboard their own boat. Proof of ownership of the boat you're claiming must accompany your application. If your time was spent on friends’ or family members’ boats, you must provide a sea service form signed by the owner of the boat you intend to claim time on.
3 WHAT FORM DO YOU USE TO RECORD SEA SERVICE TIME FOR A USCG LICENSE?
To document your experience on the water, use the Small Vessel Sea Service Form CG-719S and record, to the best of your recollection, the number of days that you were on the water in any given month and year. The Coast Guard is not looking for law books or official records to certify this time. If you have these documents and records, great! You can use them to reconstruct the time you’ve spent on the water. If you don’t have them, don’t worry.
4 HOW MANY HOURS IS A DAY OF SEA SERVICE TIME?
One day of sea time is considered to be eight hours on the water. However, in many cases, the National Maritime Center (NMC) will accept a day as being just four hours when applying for an OUPV/Six-Pack or a 25, 50, or 100-Ton Master license. A single calendar day can only be counted once, so if you spent eight hours on your boat and on the same calendar day went out for another eight hours on your friend's boat, it would still count as just one day. A day can never be counted twice, whether the day was spent on your boat or any combination of other boats.
You have to claim to have operated a boat 1440 hours since your 16th birthday and 720 of those hours has to be in the last 3 years. No records are required, it is based on the honor system. If you have fished out of a boat you can prove you owned 1440 hours since your 14th birthday and have fished 8 hours a day 90 days in the last 3 years on a boat you can prove you owned you have met that requirement. You still have to pass the test, which is easy (any operating a boat safely can do it without study) a physical which is not a difficult bar to get over and pass a drug test. Thats it, there is nothing magical about it. If you have owned a boat, and can prove it, for 3 years on your 19th birthday you could conceivably meet the operating requirements. If you fished 4 hours a week over the last 21 months you have met the 90 days in 3 years requirement. The boat, of course, has to be similar to that which you plan to operate for hire but that only means if it is an outboard it should be an outboard....if it is remote or tiller operated in makes no difference. Like most professional licensing the bar is very easy to get over....
Getting a 6 pack license is incredibly easy. The main qualification is a log of operating experience which can be produced overnight at the kitchen table. There is nothing in the process to keep someone who is bent that way to pretend to be qualified, study enough to pass the exam and be licensed.
This an excerpt from a mariners school marketing campaign but it is generally all that is required as far as operating time"
1 IS DOCUMENTATION OF SEA TIME REQUIRED FOR A BOAT LICENSE?
Yes. The Coast Guard requires a minimum number of days of experience on the water to qualify for a captain's license. The total number of days required depends on the license you wish to earn.
For the initial license, you need to document at least 360 days of boating experience since you were 16 years old, with at least ninety of those days in the last three years.
2 HOW CAN YOU PROVE YOUR BOATING EXPERIENCE FOR A CAPTAIN'S LICENSE?
Most captain's license applicants self-certify their days of sea time spent aboard their own boat. Proof of ownership of the boat you're claiming must accompany your application. If your time was spent on friends’ or family members’ boats, you must provide a sea service form signed by the owner of the boat you intend to claim time on.
3 WHAT FORM DO YOU USE TO RECORD SEA SERVICE TIME FOR A USCG LICENSE?
To document your experience on the water, use the Small Vessel Sea Service Form CG-719S and record, to the best of your recollection, the number of days that you were on the water in any given month and year. The Coast Guard is not looking for law books or official records to certify this time. If you have these documents and records, great! You can use them to reconstruct the time you’ve spent on the water. If you don’t have them, don’t worry.
4 HOW MANY HOURS IS A DAY OF SEA SERVICE TIME?
One day of sea time is considered to be eight hours on the water. However, in many cases, the National Maritime Center (NMC) will accept a day as being just four hours when applying for an OUPV/Six-Pack or a 25, 50, or 100-Ton Master license. A single calendar day can only be counted once, so if you spent eight hours on your boat and on the same calendar day went out for another eight hours on your friend's boat, it would still count as just one day. A day can never be counted twice, whether the day was spent on your boat or any combination of other boats.
You have to claim to have operated a boat 1440 hours since your 16th birthday and 720 of those hours has to be in the last 3 years. No records are required, it is based on the honor system. If you have fished out of a boat you can prove you owned 1440 hours since your 14th birthday and have fished 8 hours a day 90 days in the last 3 years on a boat you can prove you owned you have met that requirement. You still have to pass the test, which is easy (any operating a boat safely can do it without study) a physical which is not a difficult bar to get over and pass a drug test. Thats it, there is nothing magical about it. If you have owned a boat, and can prove it, for 3 years on your 19th birthday you could conceivably meet the operating requirements. If you fished 4 hours a week over the last 21 months you have met the 90 days in 3 years requirement. The boat, of course, has to be similar to that which you plan to operate for hire but that only means if it is an outboard it should be an outboard....if it is remote or tiller operated in makes no difference. Like most professional licensing the bar is very easy to get over....
Posted on 5/30/24 at 7:00 am to Ol boy
quote:
But let’s face it how hard is it to get a “six pack” and what does that really prove. When I got mine in 99-2000 at houston marine in bayou labatre there was a guy who had his sea time on his own boat and couldn’t tie a bowline and he breezed the course. There was a coon arse who was born on a boat been running double riggers and tugs his whole life who was struggling to pass the class.
I can tell you who I would want at the wheel of my boat!!
Having a license from the coast guard to operate a boat is laughably meaningless as far as actually being able to operate one. The language in the operating experience requirement is such that anyone who has owned a boat for 3 years and can prove they owned can, technically, prove they have met the operating experience requirement.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 7:10 am to KemoSabe65
kemosabe I think any for hire fatality falls under USCGs realm.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 7:14 am to SOLA
quote:
Yeah, I’ve never seen one.
Problem with the pontoon boats is they aren’t fast enough to get out of the weather. You’ve got to be watching the radar.
Loads of them in our area with cabins. Never seen a guide using one of them though because the sail area would push the trolling motor at will. I wont say there arent any being used but I never saw it.
Pontoon boats are hard to turn over. You got to work at it. I have been on them in conditions that were very bad on Santee Cooper (huge open water, flat terrain and shallow depths...perfect recipe for BIG, confused seas) and in the Carribean....and other than them being incredibly wet and uncomfortable in those conditions the danger of capsizing has never been an issue. It is possible that those conditions could break something on one the way many are built and that could cause it to capsize but if the boat is intact they are incredibly capable while miserably wet and uncomfortable. Like any boat turning and throttle control makes all the difference.
As a point of reference I was at GTMO during Hurricane Sandy and my job required that I be out and about during the storm. MWR had about 30 pontoon rental boats. About half of those broke loose from their floating moorings and were adrift. The absolute worse case scenario for ANY hull design is a loss of power in any type of concerning sea. The seas inside the bay during Sandy were concerning to say the least....8-10s EASILY....I had a video of waves on the windward side of the bay at the mouth of the bay coming over the lighthouse point which is at least 30 feet above sea level. It was amazing. Of those pontoon boats that were adrift all but 2 were found washed ashore, upright, and the other 2 were seen being used by Cuban nationals during the waning hours of the storm and for years afterward. None of them capsized in a hurricane or if they did they rolled back over, which is unlikely given that the roofs and railings were largely undamaged and the seats etc were intact. It is not easy to turn turtle on a pontoon boat. It is easy to get beat to death and soaking wet but turning turtle is unlikely unless one makes a mistake turning under power.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 7:16 am to SOLA
quote:
Problem with the pontoon boats is they aren’t fast enough to get out of the weather.
This is no longer the case anymore than it is with bass boats and center consoles....we have pontoon boats on our local lake with twin 250s....they will FLY. Tri toons with trips and quads....it is insane. I suspect any pontoon like that would be EASY to turn turtle in a high speed turn....or any multi hull boat for that.....
Posted on 5/30/24 at 7:59 am to AwgustaDawg
But that’s not what they are running on Toledo bend for white perch charters
Posted on 5/30/24 at 8:16 am to AwgustaDawg
quote:
Loads of them in our area with cabins.
Sorry, I meant around Toledo bend for charters.
Posted on 5/30/24 at 8:52 am to KemoSabe65
Pirates cove is pretty much secluded from the North, South, and East. Must of blew up out of the West. And there are several islands out towards the main lake to get out of waves. You gonna get wet but capsizing you not. He must have tried to outrun the storm. Bold move and I've never seen a pontoon sink or roll over. Maybe hit a stump.
This post was edited on 5/30/24 at 8:57 am
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