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re: Eclipse is Proof that Social Media and Mainstream Press Suck
Posted on 4/6/24 at 1:42 pm to LegendInMyMind
Posted on 4/6/24 at 1:42 pm to LegendInMyMind
quote:
ETA: The May 1984 eclipse wasn't even a total eclipse. See, ya can't trust folk's memory.
It was an annular eclipse. My high school was about 10 miles from the point of annularity track and my AP chem teacher let us out and we all drove over to be at the point of annularity. He had found a place that was on an interstate service road. When we got there there were probably 50 people.
2
Posted on 4/6/24 at 1:50 pm to Obtuse1
Posted on 4/6/24 at 3:52 pm to WB Davis
quote:
WB Davis
You are old and sound annoying AF
Posted on 4/6/24 at 4:10 pm to Obtuse1
Did Liberator run away to scream at the firmament again?
This post was edited on 4/6/24 at 4:11 pm
Posted on 4/6/24 at 4:27 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
I'll just leave your query and my response (that you didn't come back to) right here:
Thanks. I'll also copy you at the other thread.
The good news: congratulations on finding an actual military field manual (Field Artillery Manual Cannon Gunnery) that actually mentioned "Rotation" and the infamous "Coriolis Affect".
The bad news: All the the rest do NOT mention "Coriolis Affect" or "Rotation of Earth" as a factor.
(And btw, a very good friend of mine was a "Redleg" Captain -- RIP)
I am not going to post full spread sheets of the specific docs. If you have the time to double check the LACK of mentions of "ROTATION OF EARTH" or "CORIOLIS EFFECT", be my guest.
The first document -- ironically also a FIELD ARTILLERY MANUAL CANNON GUNNERY -- only from a 1999 change to the 1996 manual. (Notice under the POSITION heading: 3 NO ROTATION OF THE EARTH
(Btw, strange that the inclusion of the "Earth Rotation" and "Coriolis Effect" suddenly matter by 2016's manual.)
Change HEADQUARTERS
No.1 DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
Washington, DC, 1 October 1999
Tactics, Techniques, and Procedures for
FIELD ARTILLERY MANUAL CANNON GUNNERY
FM 6-40/MCWP 3-16.4, April 1996, is changed as follows:
1. Change the following paragraphs or sections (changes are in bold type):
Replace Paragraph 6-1, Page 6-1 with the following:
6-1. Description
A firing chart is a graphic representation of a portion of the earth's surface used for determining
distance (or range) and direction (azimuth or deflection). The chart may be constructed by using a map, a photomap, a gridsheet, or other material on which the relative locations of batteries, known points, targets, and observers can be plotted. Additional positions, fire support coordinating measures, and other data needed for the safe and accurate conduct of fire may also be recorded.
Replace Step 5, Table 6-6, Page 6-19 with the following:
5 Place a plotting pin opposite the number on the azimuth scale (blue numbers) on the arc of the
RDP corresponding to the last three digits of the azimuth in which the arm of the RDP is oriented. The location of the pin represents a temporary index and will not be replaced with a
permanent index. The value of the pin is the value of the first digit of the azimuth in which the arm of the RDP is oriented. Use the rules outlined in step 4 of Table 6-5 to determine where the pin should be placed. In Figure 6-15, the azimuth of lay is 1850, so the RDP has been oriented east (1600 mils).
Replace Figure 7-1, Page 7-1 with the following:
STANDARD CONDITIONS
WEATHER
1 AIR TEMPERATURE 100 PERCENT (59° F)
2 AIR DENSITY 100 PERCENT (1,225 gm/m3)
3 NO WIND
POSITION
1 GUN, TARGET AND MDP AT SAME ALTITUDE
2 ACCURATE RANGE
3 NO ROTATION OF THE EARTH
MATERIAL
1 STANDARD WEAPON, PROJECTILE, AND FUZE
2 PROPELLANT TEMPERATURE (70° F)
3 LEVEL TRUNNIONS AND PRECISION SETTINGS
4 FIRING TABLE MUZZLE VELOCITY
5 NO DRIFT
LEGEND: gm/m3
- grams per cubic meter
*****************************************
Moving along...
None of the following manuals mention "Coriolis Effect":
Sniping Manuals
U.S. Marine Corps Sniping Manuals
1981 FMFM 1-3B Sniping (Archive)
LINK
2016 MCTP 3-01E Sniping
LINK
U.S. Army Sniper Field Training Manuals
1994 FM 23-10 Sniper Training (Archive)
LINK
1989 TC 23-14 Sniper Training and Employment
LINK
2003 FM 3-05.222 Special Forces Sniper Training and Employment (Archive)
LINK
U.S. Navy SEAL Sniping Manual
LINK
US Navy SEAL Basic Sniper Training
LINK
US Navy SEAL Sniper Training Program
LINK
FMFM 1-3B Sniping (U.S. Marine Corps) Manual; 1984 Marksmanship Training explains effect of:
the path of the bullet, elevation, weather, wind, still/moving target, range, height of snipper/target, terrain atmospheric/light conditions.
However again -- the words "Coriolis" or "Coriolis Effect" do not appear anywhere or are mentioned as a deviation or efficiency factor in the U.S. Marine Corps, U.S. Army (1994) , or U.S. Marine and Navy SEAL sniper manuals.
Again, no other Military Field manual but the one you found mentions 'Coriolis Effect' or 'Rotation of Earth' as a factor in ordnance or sniper consideration. (It' certainly not considered as a practical matter or in battle.)
Moreover, "Coriolis Effect" is NOT mentioned as any factor in flight whatsoever by NASA itself either, it's own documents specifically advise its pilots to, quote, "presume a Flat, non-Rotating Earth".
The Earth is obviously NOT spinning. Or Rotating. OR a "Ball.
Questions to you in any case:
How do you know the following is as claimed is true and factual, "proven" by science?
1) 1000 mph Spinning Ball
Hurling 66,600 mph around the Sun
2) IF you Coriolis Effect theory is truly affecting a bullet or rocket (as the Earth spins 750-1000 mph East), then shouldn't a Balloon or plane can simply hover in the sky to "hitch" a ride West for 3 hour to California?
3) By what "Science" or authority do you know for certain that this earth is NOT an Extended plane with the center of earth the North Pole?
4) If 72% of the earth is water(Oceans, Rivers, Lakes), and we know for certain that Water and Sea Level is "LEVEL" and not convex, how can the earth be a Ball?
***************************************
Your personal "creds" and/or resume wasn't necessary, but thanks. We are aware that you are quite familiar with shooting guns and procedure.
You claim nearly everyone you know uses some kind of Coriolis Effect mitigation. Hard to believe but whatever.
Believe what you want. I know of no professional or recreational shooter who has seriously taken CE or the alleged "Spinning Earth" into account. And most certainly no sniper in real time is firing up that complicated gadget (Kestrel) to get his shot. (Nice marketing from Kestrel though)
Posted on 4/6/24 at 4:28 pm to billjamin
quote:
billjamin
He/She/They/Them
Labias/Scrotis
This post was edited on 4/6/24 at 4:30 pm
Posted on 4/6/24 at 4:29 pm to LegendInMyMind
I’m talking about shutting down trucking and asking to hoard food for first responders. Why would any of this be necessary???
Posted on 4/6/24 at 4:32 pm to Liberator
quote:
He/She/They/Them Labias/Scrotis
Those your new pronouns? I want to be as respectful of your gender identify as possible when calling you a loon.
This post was edited on 4/6/24 at 4:36 pm
Posted on 4/6/24 at 4:33 pm to billjamin
Right, Sweetie.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 4:35 pm to Liberator
quote:
Right, Sweetie.
Are you flirting with me? I don’t swing that way ma’am. Maybe go check out the Aggie board?
Posted on 4/6/24 at 5:30 pm to Liberator
quote:
4) If 72% of the earth is water(Oceans, Rivers, Lakes), and we know for certain that Water and Sea Level is "LEVEL" and not convex, how can the earth be a Ball?
Ummm... water ISN'T level, you dolt. It indeed seeks its own level - hence why you can use a water level to level a fence or something, but it is by no means level in the sense that you are saying it is level. And, quite frankly, for you to suggest that the ocean, for example... is a level plane from one coast to the other is remarkably stupid. But you are a Flat Earther... stupid goes with the territory.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 5:42 pm to Liberator
quote:
IF you Coriolis Effect theory is truly affecting a bullet or rocket (as the Earth spins 750-1000 mph East), then shouldn't a Balloon or plane can simply hover in the sky to "hitch" a ride West for 3 hour to Calif
You confuse the issue trying to say “mph”
Go with rpm. Or some measurement similar. Speed is variable. This element is also why the effect is more pronounced at the poles.
But second: why the assumption that the atmosphere wouldn’t be rotating at the same rate as the ground below it? It’s not like the ground is accelerating. And it’s not like there is friction being applied in space to cause a differential. A hovering balloon is traveling like it was before, much like a hovering balloon stays stationary in a car that is moving.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 5:47 pm to Liberator
quote:
If 72% of the earth is water(Oceans, Rivers, Lakes), and we know for certain that Water and Sea Level is "LEVEL" and not convex, how can the earth be a Ball?
For one, science doesn’t claim that the earth is a perfect sphere.
And science doesn’t claim that “sea level” is level. For instance, in general the west coast the absolute sea level is higher than the east coast.
It’s pretty easy to invent inconsistencies when you make up what is claimed as well.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 5:55 pm to Obtuse1
Liberator didn't answer you for a second time?
Posted on 4/6/24 at 8:27 pm to Liberator
quote:
You claim nearly everyone you know uses some kind of Coriolis Effect mitigation. Hard to believe but whatever.
It is because they simply do. It is a second order effect and every single long range competitive shooter will take Coriolis and Eotvos effects into account either manually or via a ballistics computer.
quote:
Believe what you want. I know of no professional or recreational shooter who has seriously taken CE or the alleged "Spinning Earth" into account. And most certainly no sniper in real time is firing up that complicated gadget (Kestrel) to get his shot. (Nice marketing from Kestrel though)
First rec shooters rarely have rifles or the skill to even shot 1 MOA at 1,000 yards. That is 10.5". Earth effects and other second order ballistics effects are in the noise for them. Professional and amateur long-range competitive shooters have to be concerned about even second order effects. Hit some of the professional long range shooters up on their SM and ask them about second order effects like Coriolis and Eotvos.
You keep coming back to snipers and the key with snipers is they shoot in a dynamic environment. It is impossible for them to DOPE second order effects by hand. They do it via ballistics calculators IF they have the time, it is the same thing with hunters at very long ranges. Both sniping and hunting take very few of their shots at long ranges.
Back to snipers. Arguably the best sniper ballistics calculator in the world for military snipers is the FN Elity. Here is a link to the product page which includes this quote:
quote:
All data will be considered, of course meteorological ones but also the muzzle velocity, if a measuring system is available, up to the latitude and azimuth, to take in count the differences Coriolis and Eötvös effects.
European Defense Review magazine
It mounts above the scope and provides corrected fire solutions in a blink of the eye so the sniper can DOPE his scope.
In the end, it is not surprising that basic sniper manuals don't cover earth effects because they don't have time to use it unless it is done with a ballistics calculator which that is the only way it is done today in a modern military. DOPE cards are still taught and used but used in case the calculator is down.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 8:58 pm to WB Davis
People ask why things that get classified as "I'll never use this" should be taught in school, this is why. When you know nothing, you'll believe anything.
Posted on 4/6/24 at 9:35 pm to Liberator
quote:
2) IF you Coriolis Effect theory is truly affecting a bullet or rocket (as the Earth spins 750-1000 mph East), then shouldn't a Balloon or plane can simply hover in the sky to "hitch" a ride West for 3 hour to California?
No, because Earth’s atmosphere also rotates due to friction and bound by gravity. Your mouth-breathing balloon plane would need to pass the von Karman line and maintain thrust exactly opposing gravitational pull back into rotating atmosphere.
quote:
3) By what "Science" or authority do you know for certain that this earth is NOT an Extended plane with the center of earth the North Pole?
By what “science” or authority do you know for certain that this earth is INDEED an extended plane with the center of earth the North Pole? What are geographical climate variations and seasons on your knuckle-dragging poster board earth? You can literally look up and SEE the moon is a ball.
quote:
4) If 72% of the earth is water(Oceans, Rivers, Lakes), and we know for certain that Water and Sea Level is "LEVEL" and not convex, how can the earth be a Ball?
Gravity. I mean, really? What are tides? Do you think the entire earth’s water surface drops or rises each day? Where does the water go or come from? Is there another extended plane of hiding water underneath your earth level? How many levels are there until you reach Shao Kahn?
This post was edited on 4/6/24 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 4/6/24 at 9:38 pm to Obtuse1
quote:
I like solar eclipses because it forces the flat earthers to add something else to their increasingly complex model to explain what the elegant spinning spheres around spinning spheres model explains and predicts so well.
Somebody has never played pong with 2 balls. They're eventually gonna cross each other. Checkmate!
Posted on 4/7/24 at 3:32 am to Smeg
quote:
Anyone who gives a shite and pays money / travels to see this is an a-hole. Straight up
My wife has a friend who’s family is driving to Texas for it, the cloud cover will be very disappointing…
Posted on 4/8/24 at 9:00 am to Volvagia
Yep. I asked the guy who handles our OOG stuff and he showed me the email. It's still crazy to me.
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