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re: Which teams would you trade rosters including draft assets with?
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:40 am to saints5021
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:40 am to saints5021
quote:There's a bit of a list, but just happy he's trending upwards in a big way.
Honestly, the way Zion is playing right now, I think the only asset in the NBA that I could possibly trade him for if he stays healthy is Wemby.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:50 am to shel311
quote:
There's a bit of a list, but just happy he's trending upwards in a big way.
Giannis
Wemby
Jokic
Doncic (and I wouldn't feel good about it because I'm not sure his style can win a title)
That's it for me
Posted on 3/26/24 at 10:47 am to shel311
So many responses to my post I can't go through them all Just a few points.
You can give +/- stats all you want (I'm the worst person to give that stat to because I hate that stat so much), and act like that proves Wemby effect winning more than Lebron, but I prefer to look at it a little more simply...
The fact is, LeBron inherited an incredibly bad team, the worst in the NBA, and right away, made them much better. Wemby inherited an incredibly bad team, and they are still incredibly bad. Winning percentage wise, even worse. +/- have a place, but I'm sorry, LeBron impacted winning more than Wemby. A significant amount of actual wins tell me more than a flawed stat. I'm fine saying that Wembys bad cast, is worse than LeBrons bad cast (even though you're making it seem like LeBrons team was actually good) and that the current West is better than the 03/04 East.
I think it will take a few years to make a better comparison. LeBron took the worst playoff teams I have ever seen in my lifetime to the playoffs in his third year and eventually the worst roster I've ever seen in an NBA finals. Odds are the Spurs aren't going to be a much better roster next year and at some point you have to start looking at actual wins.
quote:
See above, he does, more so than rookie Lebron affected winning.
Now what?
You can give +/- stats all you want (I'm the worst person to give that stat to because I hate that stat so much), and act like that proves Wemby effect winning more than Lebron, but I prefer to look at it a little more simply...
The fact is, LeBron inherited an incredibly bad team, the worst in the NBA, and right away, made them much better. Wemby inherited an incredibly bad team, and they are still incredibly bad. Winning percentage wise, even worse. +/- have a place, but I'm sorry, LeBron impacted winning more than Wemby. A significant amount of actual wins tell me more than a flawed stat. I'm fine saying that Wembys bad cast, is worse than LeBrons bad cast (even though you're making it seem like LeBrons team was actually good) and that the current West is better than the 03/04 East.
I think it will take a few years to make a better comparison. LeBron took the worst playoff teams I have ever seen in my lifetime to the playoffs in his third year and eventually the worst roster I've ever seen in an NBA finals. Odds are the Spurs aren't going to be a much better roster next year and at some point you have to start looking at actual wins.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 11:00 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:But again, On/Off is very important to this equation.
The fact is, LeBron inherited an incredibly bad team, the worst in the NBA, and right away, made them much better.
When both rookies were on court, the teams weren't that different.
When both rookies were off court, Lebron's supporting cast was respectable at least, Wemby's is all time level bad. I'm not sure how you can blame Wemby but give Lebron credit. The data shows it's pretty clear that Wemby's cast is much, much worse than rookie Lebron's. If that were not true, his cast would play much better when he's off court, but they don't.
quote:But why? Exactly how? Rookie Lebron was good, no question. Rookie Wemby is by far more impactful defensively, that's not a question. But Rookie Lebron was an awfully inefficient scorer, substantially worse than Wemby.
but I'm sorry, LeBron impacted winning more than Wemby.
I'm just trying to figure out where rookie Lebron made all of these differences, when none of the data backs it up that he was clearly and obviously a bigger difference maker than Wemby. You can try to use wins/losses, but again, I'll point to on/off as that is extremely important to tell the entire story here.
quote:In fairness, we're judging individual players, not better teams, so wins/losses is a flawed stat as well.
A significant amount of actual wins tell me more than a flawed stat.
Do you think Chet has been better than Wemby this season? I think that ultimately proves the point. Wemby has blown by Chet in the 2nd half of the season and is pretty clearly the better player, but his team is like 30 games worse.
quote:I'm just providing data, that's all.
even though you're making it seem like LeBrons team was actually good
quote:Certainly. And again, I'm not saying Wemby will be the GOAT or even has a good chance to be the GOAT. Just stating that's where his ceiling, the best possible version of him as a player can be.
I think it will take a few years to make a better comparison.
Posted on 3/30/24 at 12:22 am to shel311
Wemby with a cool 40/20/7 night tonight.
1st rookie to go for 40/20 since Shaq 31 years ago.
1st rookie to go for 40/20 since Shaq 31 years ago.
This post was edited on 3/30/24 at 12:24 am
Posted on 3/30/24 at 3:09 am to shel311
Not here to bash LeBrons Rookie year...he was fresh out of high school and did well
But don't compare his rookie season to Wemby
Lebron
41.7% FG percentage
29% 3FG percentage
75.4 FT percentage
5.5 RPG
5.9 Ast
3.5 TOs a game
20.9 PPG
Wemby
46.6% FG Percentage
32% 3FG Percentage
79.4% FT Percentage
10.3 RPG
3.6 APG
3.6 TOs a game
20.7 PPG
3.5 blocks a game**
Not even going to compare teams. Cleveland was better than San Antonio by a mile in terms of supporting cast
But don't compare his rookie season to Wemby
Lebron
41.7% FG percentage
29% 3FG percentage
75.4 FT percentage
5.5 RPG
5.9 Ast
3.5 TOs a game
20.9 PPG
Wemby
46.6% FG Percentage
32% 3FG Percentage
79.4% FT Percentage
10.3 RPG
3.6 APG
3.6 TOs a game
20.7 PPG
3.5 blocks a game**
Not even going to compare teams. Cleveland was better than San Antonio by a mile in terms of supporting cast
Posted on 3/30/24 at 5:10 am to shel311
quote:
Wemby with a cool 40/20/7 night tonight.
He had a great game and he has locked up ROTY. It was an overtime game and he was a +1 (Brunson dropped 61 and was a +20), but they got the win versus a better team at home.
Spurs have actually won 3 in a row and have a good chance to get 20 wins this season. They won 22 last year. They would have to go 4-4 in their last 8 to match that. Doesn't seem likely, given the season. But it's possible..
Posted on 3/30/24 at 5:59 am to shel311
quote:
Wemby with a cool 40/20/7 night tonight. 1st rookie to go for 40/20 since Shaq 31 years ago.
I mean this as serious investment advice. People should go out and get
Wemby rookie cards and just stash it. You’ll thank me 10 years from now.
Posted on 3/30/24 at 7:27 am to brmark70816
quote:
His team has only won 15 games this year. They are actually worse than last year. There is no excuse for that. It's not a top 10 modern NBA rookie season.
The frick?
This isn't even "back in Lebron's day". The Spurs aren't trying to be good right now. Wins are irrelevant to this discussion for that reason.
quote:
I don't equate shot blockers to great defenders.
Posted on 3/30/24 at 7:29 am to shel311
quote:
to clarify, you have to go back 30+ years and think it's a remotely comparable situation with a 24 year old David Robinson playing with multiple players who made All Star teams before the season and a future Hall of Famer as well to the dudes Wemby plays with?
Yeah he doesn't even realize how silly he is.
The age thing alone between Duncan, Robinson, Bird, Magic, etc. should have held him off of this argument...but here we are.
Posted on 3/30/24 at 7:30 am to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
The fact is, LeBron inherited an incredibly bad team, the worst in the NBA, and right away, made them much better. Wemby inherited an incredibly bad team, and they are still incredibly bad. Winning percentage wise, even worse. +/- have a place, but I'm sorry, LeBron impacted winning more than Wemby. A significant amount of actual wins tell me more than a flawed stat.
The biggest difference is the Cavs were trying to win and the Spurs are not.
Posted on 3/30/24 at 10:42 am to partywiththelombardi
quote:
But don't compare his rookie season to Wemby
quote:Correct
Not even going to compare teams. Cleveland was better than San Antonio by a mile in terms of supporting cast
It's odd that some folks can't even concede that, it's rather obvious.
It doesn't mean Wemby will be better, it just is what it is, rookie Wemby was much better than rookie Lebron.
Posted on 3/30/24 at 2:05 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I mean this as serious investment advice. People should go out and get
Wemby rookie cards and just stash it. You’ll thank me 10 years from now
Wait until the offseason when prices are typically lower if you choose to do this.
Posted on 3/30/24 at 2:35 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Yeah he doesn't even realize how silly he is
So, let's get into this. How can you say something is the greatest something of all time, then be upset when people bring up the others in the past to compare and contrast?
Posted on 3/30/24 at 2:46 pm to brmark70816
quote:
So, let's get into this. How can you say something is the greatest something of all time, then be upset when people bring up the others in the past to compare and contrast?
You have to bring up comparable guys, though.
Posted on 3/30/24 at 4:06 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
You have to bring up comparable guys, though.
He said, "its the greatest rookie season of all time". When I objected and started naming other rookie seasons, he said they are from too long ago. Maybe he meant, for the past 20 years or 30 years or something. But he said, of all time. You kind of have to go historic when people make claims like that. So, I just gave up and moved on, cause it's really not worth debating. But that's what you are supporting, so just some context..
Posted on 4/2/24 at 10:31 pm to brmark70816
Wemby with 23/15/8 with 9 blocks
Nearly a quadruple double, no big deal.
Nearly a quadruple double, no big deal.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 12:13 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
I mean this as serious investment advice. People should go out and get
Wemby rookie cards and just stash it. You’ll thank me 10 years from now.
As an avid sports card investor/collector for 20+ years, this is terrible advice His cards are at an all time high right now.
Posted on 4/3/24 at 1:51 pm to shel311
quote:
Nearly a quadruple double, no big deal.
But mah Rockets!!
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