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Message
Weight training - any pointers on how to cycle between hypertrophy and strength?
Posted on 3/17/24 at 10:46 am
Posted on 3/17/24 at 10:46 am
My main objective is fat loss
As part of that goal, one of my tools is gaining muscle so I've been doing more hypertrophy-type exercises. I measure my progress in 8 week cycles and was thinking of pivoting more toward strength over the next 8 weeks for 2 reasons
1 - To break up the boredom
2 - I'd like to increase functional strength to increase my ability to do more body weight exercises until my weight is in a more ideal place
How do you manage this with your workout splits? Any recommendations?
As part of that goal, one of my tools is gaining muscle so I've been doing more hypertrophy-type exercises. I measure my progress in 8 week cycles and was thinking of pivoting more toward strength over the next 8 weeks for 2 reasons
1 - To break up the boredom
2 - I'd like to increase functional strength to increase my ability to do more body weight exercises until my weight is in a more ideal place
How do you manage this with your workout splits? Any recommendations?
Posted on 3/17/24 at 10:50 am to Powerman
quote:
Weight training - any pointers
Wear gloves and a weightlifting belt.
Posted on 3/17/24 at 4:19 pm to Powerman
Get on a linear progression program. You’ll be burning fat while building strength. Starting strength, greyskull, or 5/3/1.
Size is a side effect of strength.
Size is a side effect of strength.
Posted on 3/17/24 at 5:05 pm to Scoobs
Correct
Gains in strength = Gains in muscle when in caloric surplus
Get on linear progression program then move to something like RPT or 531
Gains in strength = Gains in muscle when in caloric surplus
Get on linear progression program then move to something like RPT or 531
Posted on 3/18/24 at 8:24 am to Powerman
Bro splits, low reps. Need a spotter so you can go heavy as you can to failure and maybe even an extra assisted rep.
It's really not complicated and can be done in unlimited ways. Just find something you like. Oh and wear gloves. Lol. Honestly I'm started to feel like I'm the only one that does any more.
It's really not complicated and can be done in unlimited ways. Just find something you like. Oh and wear gloves. Lol. Honestly I'm started to feel like I'm the only one that does any more.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 9:57 am to Powerman
I like both. Was told by a trainer once and I like it.
If I’m doing an exercise that has 5 sets I’ll go:
Hypertrophy
Hypertrophy
Hypertrophy
Strength
Strength
Or maybe
Strength
Strength
Strength
Hypertrophy
Hypertrophy
If I’m doing an exercise that has 5 sets I’ll go:
Hypertrophy
Hypertrophy
Hypertrophy
Strength
Strength
Or maybe
Strength
Strength
Strength
Hypertrophy
Hypertrophy
Posted on 3/18/24 at 10:39 am to pwejr88
Are we defining those strength sets as 5 reps or less, hypertrophy 8 to 12?
Posted on 3/18/24 at 11:30 am to bricksandstones
I do both per PPL split. Low reps to failure for strength training and high reps to failure in isolation exercises.
Push:
Bench (S)
Press (S)
Dumbell Incl (HT)
Lateral Raise (HT)
etc etc
Push:
Bench (S)
Press (S)
Dumbell Incl (HT)
Lateral Raise (HT)
etc etc
Posted on 3/18/24 at 11:51 am to Prosecuted Collins
quote:
I do both per PPL split. Low reps to failure for strength training and high reps to failure in isolation exercises.
Push:
Bench (S)
Press (S)
Dumbell Incl (HT)
Lateral Raise (HT)
This sounds like a good hybrid that would work for me
I've been doing a similar split but all at higher reps
Posted on 3/18/24 at 12:01 pm to Powerman
yall realize that number of reps doesnt even matter...right? atleast up to about 30 reps.
its about how close you get to failure, did you progressively overload and lift sufficient tonnage to cause an adaptation.
you could easily get just as much or more out of 10 sets of 3 as you could 3 sets of 10. prolly get way more out of it.
its about how close you get to failure, did you progressively overload and lift sufficient tonnage to cause an adaptation.
you could easily get just as much or more out of 10 sets of 3 as you could 3 sets of 10. prolly get way more out of it.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 12:37 pm to Powerman
If your goal is fat loss, stick to heavier to strength specific training until you reach your goal. Hypertrophy training is biologically expensive and is more fatiguing on the body. It would be better to drop the fat you want first, than adjust your nutrition to add mass, and adjust your programming to be hypertrophy oriented. I think trying to do a recomp would leave you spinning your wheels. You’re not a beginner, so I think you would be wasting your time doing that.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 12:45 pm to lsu777
quote:
its about how close you get to failure, did you progressively overload and lift sufficient tonnage to cause an adaptation.
Does it not also depend on the goal? If the goal is to increase maximal strength, the low reps would be suggested to create a CNS adaption. Sure, you can see some increase to mass, but if the goal is hypertrophy, then the higher reps would lend more towards muscle fatigue and building.
I know the studies that say a range of 30 reps is ideal, but I still think that has to fit within the context of a person’s goals.
quote:
you could easily get just as much or more out of 10 sets of 3 as you could 3 sets of 10. prolly get way more out of it.
I think that too depends on the individual. I think 3 x 10 and 10 x 3 have their respective places. For example, in my current training, I would use 3 x 10 for accessory work on externally stabilized exercises so I can push weights and push fatigue. I would use the 10 x 3 scheme for main lifts where I need the volume, but I’m under a 86-95% load. The extra sets give me the volume without sacrificing the integrity of my technique due to fatigue on high rep sets.
ETA: I think I should also state that I am competitive, so my training philosophy may not always be relevant to non-competitive people
This post was edited on 3/18/24 at 12:56 pm
Posted on 3/18/24 at 1:20 pm to lsu777
quote:
yall realize that number of reps doesnt even matter...right? atleast up to about 30 reps.
5-30 is what renaissance periodization recommends. The majority would be better off just eating in a surplus and get stronger. It’s really not that hard. No one that deadlifts or squats 500 is small.
Good example is Denim. Anyone look at that guy and think he’s weak? If he cut, do you think he’s going to look skinny? Hell no he won’t
Posted on 3/18/24 at 1:23 pm to DeafJam73
quote:
Does it not also depend on the goal? If the goal is to increase maximal strength, the low reps would be suggested to create a CNS adaption. Sure, you can see some increase to mass, but if the goal is hypertrophy, then the higher reps would lend more towards muscle fatigue and building.
I know the studies that say a range of 30 reps is ideal, but I still think that has to fit within the context of a person’s goals.
not when it comes to hypertrophic effect. the progressive overload and overall tonnage is going to play more of a role
i would still say for overall hypertrophy...find an exercise that hits the muscle you want to hit for your specific build and progressing the weight up in the 4-12 rep range is prolly easiest.
the problem is accumulating enough tonnage and getting close enough to failure on say using single or doubles to drive the hypertrophic effect without just frying the cns.
thats why its easier to use the 5-12 rep range. easier to progress the weights up while still getting close to failure and driving overall tonnage up.
its why doggcrapp rest pause method works so well.
quote:
I think that too depends on the individual. I think 3 x 10 and 10 x 3 have their respective places. For example, in my current training, I would use 3 x 10 for accessory work on externally stabilized exercises so I can push weights and push fatigue. I would use the 10 x 3 scheme for main lifts where I need the volume, but I’m under a 86-95% load. The extra sets give me the volume without sacrificing the integrity of my technique due to fatigue on high rep sets.
correct, i was talking more for main lifts. all lifts have their sweet sport rep range wise where fatigue/cns vs strength/ease of progression is maximized
like it wouldnt make since to try and do ez bar curls 10x 3. too hard to progress and get close enough to failure.
but bench, squats etc.
and progression can be velocity, weight, number of reps even overall tonnage if done correctly
as far as your comment on being in fat loss phase and focusing on strength...100%. whole goal during any cut is simple...maintain muscle and strength as much as possible while understanding recovery globally is compromised. so we keep overall volume low, push to about 1 rep short of max failure and we try pushing the strength up.
similar to philosophy of leangains, kinobody etc when it comes to cutting. low volume...high intensity relative to % of max.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 1:25 pm to bamaguy17
quote:
5-30 is what renaissance periodization recommends. The majority would be better off just eating in a surplus and get stronger. It’s really not that hard. No one that deadlifts or squats 500 is small.
Good example is Denim. Anyone look at that guy and think he’s weak? If he cut, do you think he’s going to look skinny? Hell no he won’t
oh 100% agree. that was my point. people in here are saying do this rep range or that rep range for muscle or that for strength when the focus should be...just get stronger in the damn exercise
kind of like the old wendler saying...never seen someone that could strict press bodyweight for 508 reps complain about the size of their shoulders
sorry if i wasnt clear with my comment before
Posted on 3/18/24 at 1:28 pm to DeafJam73
quote:
Does it not also depend on the goal? If the goal is to increase maximal strength, the low reps would be suggested to create a CNS adaption. Sure, you can see some increase to mass, but if the goal is hypertrophy, then the higher reps would lend more towards muscle fatigue and building.
This is the road to power building. I think it's a nice mix just to keep things interesting. I think it's boring to do 5x5 or 5x10 forever. Me personally, I always liked a top set with backoff work. Then accessories in the "hypertrophy range".
Reactive Training Systems, hypertrophy template is 3 sets at a set RPE (6,7,8, or 9, depending on the week). As you progress, it adds volume to those sets with backoff work. The assistance is basically Greyskull homework, crossfit, or typical bodybuilding circuits. Dealer's choice.
Posted on 3/18/24 at 1:29 pm to lsu777
quote:
sorry if i wasnt clear with my comment before
Apologies, you were clear, I was just piggy backing on your comment
Posted on 3/18/24 at 1:36 pm to bamaguy17
yep
dc training, the greyskull powerbuilding method, even a lot of mountain dog programs are like this and also fortitude training. andy baker powerbuilding is great too
pretty much 2 decades ago...dante trudal, mark rippetoe and madcow convinced me
when calories and protein are suffecient
gains in strength=gains in hypertrophy
that doesnt mean 1 rep max strength though, means gains in strength in that 4-12 rep range which in turn drive up the 1 rep max.
thats why linear progression adds so much muscle to so many...you are adding weight to the bar, eating to support the gains in strength. because the trainie is novice...they are able to stack 2.5-5 lbs every session so adds up big time in terms of tissue
then you go to weekly progression like in mad cow or texas method or hlm and you ramp to the weight up over time to new 5 rep maxes over 9-12 weeks and boom all kinds of new growth
then its go to monthly progressions like 531 or the advanced template from bill star
or you go the bodybuilding route and do something like dc training where you rotating the lifts but still progressing the weights int he rep range through pushing rest pause reps
dc training, the greyskull powerbuilding method, even a lot of mountain dog programs are like this and also fortitude training. andy baker powerbuilding is great too
pretty much 2 decades ago...dante trudal, mark rippetoe and madcow convinced me
when calories and protein are suffecient
gains in strength=gains in hypertrophy
that doesnt mean 1 rep max strength though, means gains in strength in that 4-12 rep range which in turn drive up the 1 rep max.
thats why linear progression adds so much muscle to so many...you are adding weight to the bar, eating to support the gains in strength. because the trainie is novice...they are able to stack 2.5-5 lbs every session so adds up big time in terms of tissue
then you go to weekly progression like in mad cow or texas method or hlm and you ramp to the weight up over time to new 5 rep maxes over 9-12 weeks and boom all kinds of new growth
then its go to monthly progressions like 531 or the advanced template from bill star
or you go the bodybuilding route and do something like dc training where you rotating the lifts but still progressing the weights int he rep range through pushing rest pause reps
This post was edited on 3/18/24 at 1:43 pm
Posted on 3/18/24 at 5:59 pm to lsu777
quote:
yall realize that number of reps doesnt even matter...right? atleast up to about 30 reps.
its about how close you get to failure, did you progressively overload and lift sufficient tonnage to cause an adaptation.
you could easily get just as much or more out of 10 sets of 3 as you could 3 sets of 10. prolly get way more out of it.
I resisted doing heavy lifting because I was worried my joints, ancillary muscles, and tendons needed to get used to the load. I think I'm at the point now where I could go heavier. That being said, you're sort of saying 2 conflicting things. If the number of reps doesn't matter, then why would you say you would probably get more out of 10 3 rep sets as opposed to 3 10 rep sets? Can you clarify what you mean there?
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