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What end season result would make you ok with keeping B.I./Z/Willie?

Posted on 12/20/23 at 9:17 am
Posted by whatiknowsofar
hm?
Member since Nov 2010
25971 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 9:17 am
Sons,

We all know last night was a huge fricking black eye for the team, but black eyes heal.

We've all agreed before the season started that this was it for the Ingram/Zion experiment, and to a lesser extent Willie Greens future.

Now that we've seen this team somewhat fully healthy for a few weeks, have a winning record, and are in the thick of it for a top 4 seed with an easy rest of December schedule yet brutal January, what end result would make you want to run it back with this core?

2nd round exit or WCF? These are the only two options imo.
Posted by Fun Bunch
New Orleans
Member since May 2008
128052 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 9:20 am to
2nd Round extremely competitive series that goes to a game 7.
Posted by tehchampion140
Member since Sep 2010
18886 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 9:34 am to
Realistically, I don’t ever see Willie or BI being part of a championship team. I still have hope for Zion but BI is just too set in his ways with his inefficient ball stopping midrange game and Willie, while a nice guy, seems incapable of maximizing a very talented roster and IMO is too nice to the point he won’t push his guys if they aren’t meeting expectations.
Posted by supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
12940 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 9:54 am to
None. Green will never be more than a transitional coach for this team. He may get better over time but he's not the answer if you have championship aspirations.

Even if you make it deep into the playoffs, you'll end up losing Borrego and we're back to the drawing board.
Posted by Pels_Yaz
Member since Apr 2023
11544 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 10:00 am to
quote:

Even if you make it deep into the playoffs, you'll end up losing Borrego and we're back to the drawing board.


No need to worry. With the way Willie coaches we won’t make it out of first round. Personally, I don’t think Griffin is a huge fan of Willie. Its also why he didn’t get an extension. This is the “prove it” year for Willie and he’s failing miserably. We’ll see a new head coach next year.
Posted by BowDownToLSU
Livingston louisiana
Member since Feb 2010
21191 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 10:15 am to
quote:

nd Round extremely competitive series that goes to a game 7.
nailed it
Posted by Soggymoss
Member since Aug 2018
17411 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 10:30 am to
The only result I want to see is fricking playing consistently from one game to the next.

We can’t preach we want the team taking 40 3’s a game, then come out and shoot 25. We can’t have Ingram going ham from 3 along with moving the ball for a few games in a row, then refuse to shoot them and play iso ball for a few games.

Consistency is all I ask for, if Willie can ever get these guys to play consistent ball then we will be golden, if he can’t then we need to get someone that can.
Posted by Pels_Yaz
Member since Apr 2023
11544 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 10:32 am to
quote:

Consistency is all I ask for, if Willie can ever get these guys to play consistent ball then we will be golden, if he can’t then we need to get someone that can.


I hate to say it but look game to game, our rotation and style of play changes. We get wins on talent alone. We cant get consistency because our head coach isn’t consistent in the way he coaches himself.
Posted by supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
12940 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 10:38 am to
That will be impossible. Willie sends mix messages and leave his shooters on the bench. You cannot be say you want the team to shoot it a lot more and come out with these non shooting lineups as frequently as he does. We also don't run very many actions/plays to get shot opportunities from deep. We're barely running any plays to get Trey looks. Having him stand around is a crime.

At the end of the day, we will always be a different team from game to game since we don't truly emphasize the shooting. Willie says we should shoot it more but what are you as a coaching doing to get key shooters the shot opportunities? And what is the accountability for not shooting? We didn't have this problem with Gentry. Even BI was launching them left and right in 2019. And still had a good rate in 2020.

Posted by Macintosh
Lane State University
Member since Sep 2011
55928 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 10:57 am to
2nd round.
Posted by England_Pelican
England
Member since Apr 2018
3949 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 11:02 am to
I am genuinely expecting a championship.. or damn near with this group of players.

Maybe not this season but I would at least be expecting us to have that upward trend.

We haven’t even been hinting at it.. it’s 3 steps forward and 2 back… progress is far far too slow.
Posted by Bonkers119
Baton Rouge
Member since Dec 2015
11689 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 11:07 am to
quote:

We cant get consistency because our head coach isn’t consistent in the way he coaches himself.


Two days ago this board was applauding the way Willie was using his rotations. He has one bad game, and all of a sudden he can't coach?
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112635 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 11:29 am to
quote:

What end season result would make you ok with keeping B.I./Z/Willie?

Not winning a playoff round is a massive failure on all levels at this point, and we would require wholesale changes to the coach and at least 1 of our 2 best players at a minimum. Anything else, and we're doomed to repeat and win nothing the next season too.

Year 5 of Zion, year 8 for BI. It's time, it's wayyyyyy past time.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 11:30 am
Posted by Pels_Yaz
Member since Apr 2023
11544 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 11:58 am to
quote:

Two days ago this board was applauding the way Willie was using his rotations. He has one bad game, and all of a sudden he can't coach?


Dude stop it. This isn’t one bad day. He’s had issues like these his whole tenure and its becoming more apparent now because this roster is too talented to be losing leads like this to inferior teams. This isn’t some one game reactionary BS.
Posted by supe12sta12z
Tiger Town
Member since Apr 2012
12940 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

[OC] 8 blown double digit leads in only 28 games: How Willie Green is keeping the Pelicans from reaching their full potential

Original Content

The Pelicans currently have a 16-12 record on the year, which is pretty good, right? Pelicans fans shouldn't have much to be upset about.

The problem is, of those 12 losses, the Pels led by double digits in a whopping 8 of them. 66.7%! That's just absurd. This is the most in the league by any team not named the Spurs or the Pistons. Great company! A few times, whatever - but it's become too frequent to not need to be looked into deeper. And when you look deeper, you can clearly see: this is a coaching problem.

Willie Green's inability to adjust to keep big leads is not his only issue as a coach, but it is indicative of the two largest issues he has as a coach, and I'd like to use the Pels' blown leads and specifically the Grizzlies game last night to showcase these two main issues, which are:

Willie Green is a defensive-minded coach with an offensively-oriented roster

Willie Green doesn't understand the value of spacing in the modern NBA, often leaving only 1 shooter on the floor at once

It's easy to watch the Grizzlies vs Pelicans game last night, see CJ brick 2 wide open threes, and chalk it up to "oh well, the Pels blew it".

When you dig deeper, you find a different problem, though. Those 2 bad threes in the clutch last night might distract from the fact that the Pelicans are currently 30th in the league in 3PA in the clutch, with 14.9 per 100. They are WAY behind the 29th team, who is at 22.7.

Pels 3PA in the clutch the last 3 years under Willie Green:

2021-22: 26th

2022-23: 30th

2023-24: 30th

Let's look at the minutes in the Grizzlies game last night. I've broken down the lineups based on how many high volume shooters were on the floor (Trey Murphy, CJ McCollum, and Jordan Hawkins) and how many Scorers were on the floor (Zion, Brandon Ingram, Trey Murphy, CJ McCollum, Jonas Valanciunas, Jordan Hawkins). Here's the breakdown:

Scorers:

5 Scorers on the floor: 0 minutes, 0 seconds

4 Scorers on the floor: 25 minutes, 2 seconds

3 Scorers on the floor: 15 minutes, 18 seconds

2 Scorers on the floor: 7 minutes, 25 seconds

1 Scorer on the floor: 0 minutes, 15 seconds

Shooters:

3 Shooters on the floor: 0 minutes, 0 seconds

2 Shooters on the floor: 14 minutes, 25 seconds

1 Shooter on the floor: 33 minutes, 35 seconds

 

So the Pelicans spent 16% of the game with only 2 scorers on the floor and 47% of the game with 3 or less scorers on the floor.

Not as damning as the shooters stat though: the Pelicans spent 70% of the game with only 1 high-volume shooter on the floor

And honestly, when you start matching up these categories, it gets even worse:

Of the minutes the Pelicans spent with 4 scorers on the floor, only 9 minutes and 37 seconds of that time had 2 shooters on the floor.

Which means only 20% of the game did the Pelicans have 4 scorers, 2 of which were shooters, on the floor.

And of the time the Pelicans had 3 scorers on the floor, only 4 minutes 46 seconds of that had 2 shooters on the floor.

This means the Pelicans only had 3+ scorers, 2 of which are shooters on the floor for 30% of the game

When you spend 70% of the game with only three (or less) reliable scorers on the floor, and only 1 of those scorers can space the floor, you become one of the easiest to guard offenses in the NBA. Barely an NBA level offense.




LINK



Got this off of reddit. Read it and weep.
This post was edited on 12/20/23 at 12:14 pm
Posted by Pistol44
New Orleans
Member since Jun 2019
2298 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 12:29 pm to
I have advocated for Coach Green, but a pattern is clear with this team, inconsistency, that is the coaches responsibility. Last night, hopefully for Coach Green, will mark the point where evaluation's need to cease and hard adjustments need to be made.
Posted by Pels_Yaz
Member since Apr 2023
11544 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 12:42 pm to
It won’t. We’re in our third year clamoring for more Trey Murphy minutes. That should tell you something.
Posted by shel311
McKinney, Texas
Member since Aug 2004
112635 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 1:19 pm to
quote:

Scorers:

5 Scorers on the floor: 0 minutes, 0 seconds

4 Scorers on the floor: 25 minutes, 2 seconds

3 Scorers on the floor: 15 minutes, 18 seconds

2 Scorers on the floor: 7 minutes, 25 seconds

1 Scorer on the floor: 0 minutes, 15 seconds

Shooters:

3 Shooters on the floor: 0 minutes, 0 seconds

2 Shooters on the floor: 14 minutes, 25 seconds

1 Shooter on the floor: 33 minutes, 35 seconds
Willie preaches to the team to shoot more 3s then plays Trey 6 minutes in an entire half and does nothing but put defensive lineups on the court.

His schemes make no sense.
Posted by Terrific Tales
Member since Jan 2019
19919 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 1:23 pm to
This group of players is championship caliber. If Willie doesn’t figure it out before the all star break he should probably be gone
Posted by Pels_Yaz
Member since Apr 2023
11544 posts
Posted on 12/20/23 at 1:25 pm to
You know what’s interesting. Because Willie is not being good enough come trade deadline, we will almost assuredly not go over the cap and then the question becomes who does Griffin dump to stay under the cap? Especially with the contracts coming up.
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