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Started By
Message
re: "Constitutional carry” passes in the committee and will now move on to the House.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:26 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:26 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
What is current Louisiana law? My recollection is open carry without a permit, but concealed carry only with one. Is that correct?
If you are veteran you can conceal carry without a permit or either they will give you a permit without having to go through the class, can’t remember which one it is.
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Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:26 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
Nah dude, I’m all for convinced felons losing their 2nd Amendment rights. They surrendered those rights when they committed a felony.
Are you seriously white knighting for violent convicted felons rights to carry a firearm? frick, they’ve already demonstrated that they are willing to use a gun in the commission of a crime and cannot be trusted to responsibly carry a gun.
I used to feel the same, but you have either paid your debt to society or you haven't. No other constitutionally protected right is treated this way.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:31 pm to troyt37
quote:I could see allowing non-violent felons the right to own firearms, but violent felons have already demonstrated that they can’t be trusted and will likely do it again.
I used to feel the same, but you have either paid your debt to society or you haven't. No other constitutionally protected right is treated this way.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:37 pm to AggieHank86
quote:What does this have to do with constitutional carry? It sounds like he's open carrying anyway...unless he's the type that thinks it makes him look cool by concealed carrying so he has to tell everyone...like the firearms version of a vegan. Also, if he's drinking and is at or above a .08 blood alcohol level, then its illegal for him to be carrying anyway.
My only problem with unlicensed concealed carry is that some people are simply too fricking stupid to do it safely. One of my 16 first cousins carries everywhere. Literally everywhere. At family Thanksgiving, he sits around drinking with a gun in his pants, surrounded by two dozen small children. He has been asked to lock it in his glove box when he is around all the children, but he refuses. Poor judgment. The family is not going to exclude him from the gathering, so we all become responsible for keeping the little kids away from his drunk arse.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:38 pm to troyt37
quote:Among other things, many states limit the voting rights of convicted felons.
No other constitutionally protected right is treated this way.
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:42 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
I could see allowing non-violent felons the right to own firearms, but violent felons have already demonstrated that they can’t be trusted and will likely do it again.
In that case I would rather see their sentence increased exponentially, than have their rights as a human being violated by the government.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:44 pm to Dingdong Stabbins
As a longtime firearms instructor and range officer, I support the 2nd Amendment.
But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
Basic concepts such as muzzle discipline, trigger discipline, charging and clearing a chamber, press checking a chamber, and sight alignment are not innate skills to all humans. These necessary skills are taught and maintained. I have literally seen people show up with .9mm pistol in a box and bag and load .40 S&W ammunition into the magazine before wondering why the chamber would not close into battery!
People are inherently lazy and will take the path of least resistance.
Having them attend a simple safety class and display a reasonable level of skill is not an infringement - it is part of that whole "well regulated" concept in my view. It is a completely reasonable expectation for their safety and for the safety of everyone around them.
In fact, I think that some firearms safety training should be required for all citizens as part of their early education. If we view ourselves as part of the militia, why are we not given some basic training to make that viable?
Think this through for a moment. Do we want to permit all of the lowest IQ and poorest maturity people to have the ability to carry concealed with no standards, training or qualification?
Take a moment to ponder those special few...
Seems scary to me.
I took numerous classes and fired countless rounds before even considering carrying a firearm. I cannot imagine any responsible person not wanting to be skilled before doing so.
But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
Basic concepts such as muzzle discipline, trigger discipline, charging and clearing a chamber, press checking a chamber, and sight alignment are not innate skills to all humans. These necessary skills are taught and maintained. I have literally seen people show up with .9mm pistol in a box and bag and load .40 S&W ammunition into the magazine before wondering why the chamber would not close into battery!
People are inherently lazy and will take the path of least resistance.
Having them attend a simple safety class and display a reasonable level of skill is not an infringement - it is part of that whole "well regulated" concept in my view. It is a completely reasonable expectation for their safety and for the safety of everyone around them.
In fact, I think that some firearms safety training should be required for all citizens as part of their early education. If we view ourselves as part of the militia, why are we not given some basic training to make that viable?
Think this through for a moment. Do we want to permit all of the lowest IQ and poorest maturity people to have the ability to carry concealed with no standards, training or qualification?
Take a moment to ponder those special few...
Seems scary to me.
I took numerous classes and fired countless rounds before even considering carrying a firearm. I cannot imagine any responsible person not wanting to be skilled before doing so.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:50 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Such thugs are carrying NOW, and thus breaking the law and giving LEOs an excuse to arrest them. Change the law, and their actions become legal, and LEOs lose a tool in controlling the gang problem. This is probably one of several reasons that Louisiana LEOs opposed the last bill.
A better way to deal with this would be to put people in jail for very long sentences when they commit a crime with a firearm (or a violent crime in general).
Guns are not the problem. People are the problem. If you put the dangerous people in prison for 25-30 years they would not cause any problems.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:51 pm to Rabby
quote:
As a longtime firearms instructor and range officer, I support the 2nd Amendment. But
No, no you don’t. I’ve seen range officers and firearms instructors do completely stupid and unsafe things with guns. Guess they need to be included when your preferred rights violations come down.
We can fill the rest of this thread with videos of instructors shooting themselves. They have no business having their constitutional rights preserved…
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:56 pm to Rabby
quote:You can never have 100% assurance that stupid people will not do stupid things, but a bit of mandatory training DOES seem to lessen the likelihood significantly.
Rabby
The problem IMO is that the language of the 2A does seem to preclude such a requirement.***
***(Setting aside the question of whether the 2A ... or the Bill of Rights as a whole ... was ever intended to limit anyone other than the FEDERAL government, as compared to state/local).
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:58 pm to bhtigerfan
quote:
Are you seriously white knighting for violent convicted felons rights to carry a firearm?
Are you serious that all felons are violent?
LINK
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:58 pm to Dingdong Stabbins
Maybe he won’t veto it
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:58 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
The family is not going to exclude him from the gathering, so we all become responsible for keeping the little kids away from his drunk arse.
Man...I hope yall keep sharp objects away from him cause his drunk arse may start chunking them at the kids for the shite/giggles.
What's funny is that this has probably been going on for yrs, and yall are still worried about him doing something with it....yet he has not indicated he would pull it out for the shites/giggles. smfh at the fear.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:59 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Such thugs are carrying NOW, and thus breaking the law and giving LEOs an excuse to arrest them. Change the law, and their actions become legal, and LEOs lose a tool in controlling the gang problem. This is probably one of several reasons that Louisiana LEOs opposed the last bill.
That's a ridiculous statement. The "thugs" have priors so their having a firearm at all is a crime. They are concealed carrying because it's already illegal for them to carry at all.
Along with that, firearms possession charges are among the most (if not the most) pled charges on the books.
What they are going to jail over is rarely firearms charges, but drug possession, violent crimes, etc.
The people in this state covered by your stance (up-and-coming thugs who don't have a criminal record yet) being jailed solely for firearms possession crime could fit in a phone booth and still leave enough room for you to make a call.
Meanwhile, law-abiding citizens are penalized.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:01 pm to Rabby
quote:
But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
I guess we should put laws in place to prevent people from owning cars and driving based on this same assessment.
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:05 pm to KAGTASTIC
quote:Well, we do require them to get training (Driver Ed) and a license.quote:I guess we should put laws in place to prevent people from owning cars and driving based on this same assessment.
But after seeing the completely stupid and unsafe things that untrained and/or inattentive people do at even well organized ranges, I am reluctant to open the flood gates for people who have zero training to carry concealed firearms.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:05 pm to TBoy
quote:
Unpermitted concealed firearms just legalizes the gang bangers who carry unpermitted concealed weapons everywhere.
Yep cause these fellows always follow the rules. Oh and your rationale is that they will confiscate guns from the corner dealers LOL. Why don’t they just pop them for being dealers? What dream world does this happen in?
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:08 pm to Timeoday
quote:I clarified that in a previous post.
Are you serious that all felons are violent?
quote:
I could see allowing non-violent felons the right to own firearms, but violent felons have already demonstrated that they can’t be trusted and will likely do it again.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:15 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Among other things, many states limit the voting rights of convicted felons.
Now show a map regarding felon rights AFTER the felon has been released from incarceration.
Heck, a felon can run for President yet can not exercise all of their "god given" rights!! Seriously.
quote:
Well, we do require them to get training (Driver Ed) and a license.
Where in the constitution does it talk about a vehicle? Also, with any form of "mandatory" training, goooooooooooooooooooooooooooberment would have a list of those who trained, would it not? Of course, with addresses for ez confiscation when they wish to try!!
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 1:23 pm
Posted on 5/17/23 at 1:17 pm to Timeoday
quote:Apparently, you did not understand the graphic. It covers that issue.
Now show a map regarding felon rights AFTER the felon has been released from incarceration.
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