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Started By
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May be a stupid question, but how are old pitching stats so incredible?
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:15 pm
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:15 pm
I don’t mean, wins, strikeouts, and all of that. I know in the dead ball era it was harder to hit, and a lot of the players were not nearly as good. I mean the sheer volume of pitches that guys like Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Satchel Paige, etc… threw.
I mean the story of these guys throwing 15-16 innings a day, then turning around and doing it again a day or two later, pitching 100+ games a year into their 40s is astonishing. Did they all have completely fricked up arms and just sucked up the pain? Is it as simple as they didn’t throw as hard as they could for most of their pitches because the players they faced were inferior?
It’s always blown my mind
I mean the story of these guys throwing 15-16 innings a day, then turning around and doing it again a day or two later, pitching 100+ games a year into their 40s is astonishing. Did they all have completely fricked up arms and just sucked up the pain? Is it as simple as they didn’t throw as hard as they could for most of their pitches because the players they faced were inferior?
It’s always blown my mind
This post was edited on 2/28/23 at 4:18 pm
14
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:19 pm to Tiger1242
Half the time they were drunk or sniffed cocaine before/during/after the game and didn’t feel the pain
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:20 pm to Tiger1242
They were throwing wads of damp toilet paper underhand
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:20 pm to Tiger1242
Didn't Bob Gibson era make MLB lower the mound
That helped hitters
Lack of performance enhancing drugs back then
A lot of those pitchers didn't grow up throwing as much as kids do today, before Tommy John arm injuries were rare and it's gotten progressively worse since then
That helped hitters
Lack of performance enhancing drugs back then
A lot of those pitchers didn't grow up throwing as much as kids do today, before Tommy John arm injuries were rare and it's gotten progressively worse since then
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:24 pm to Tiger1242
They had much less movement and velocity
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:25 pm to nicholastiger
quote:
A lot of those pitchers didn't grow up throwing as much as kids do today
This is probably the most likely answer. Kids today are playing 70+ games over the spring/summer starting from the age of 7-8 years old and are playing year round. Sure, they have pitch count limits now, but those kids are also playing in showcases on top of practices and other throwing activities. It's just a recipe for disaster when it comes to long-term arm health
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:31 pm to nicholastiger
Sure but still, if you believe the Satchel Paige stories that dude would throw 100+ pitch count games 5-6 days in a row, every week, for years. Cy Young pitched like every other day and almost always threw a complete game.
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:36 pm to Tiger1242
Batters couldn't see the ball especially heading toward dusk.
They didn't switch out balls back then, so the ball would start turning black with mud, dirt, scuffs and tobacco juice.
They didn't switch out balls back then, so the ball would start turning black with mud, dirt, scuffs and tobacco juice.
This post was edited on 2/28/23 at 4:37 pm
Posted on 2/28/23 at 4:38 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
Batters couldn't see the ball especially heading toward dusk.
They didn't switch out balls back then, so the ball would start turning black with mud, dirt, scuffs and tobacco juice.
I understand why they have incredible stats. It’s the incredible amount of pitches I’m talking about.
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:09 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
I don’t mean, wins, strikeouts, and all of that. I know in the dead ball era it was harder to hit, and a lot of the players were not nearly as good. I mean the sheer volume of pitches that guys like Cy Young, Walter Johnson, Satchel Paige, etc… threw
Cy Young was born two years after the Civil War ended, 80 years later Satchel Paige was still pitching in the majors, different eras.
Satchel Paige is credited with 120+ wins but only 28 of them came in either the AL or NL. 90% of his starts were not in the majors. Still throughout his career, Negro Leagues, included only had more 20 starts once in over 20+ year career(During WWII). Aaron Nola who is still in his 20s has started over 30 games a season 4 times already.
Walter Johnson played for a bad Senators franchise, to make money they would pitch him against the big draws Yankees & White Sox at home multiple times. Johnson would not throw on the road trip, skip his start, so he could start twice on the home stand. Happened so often that at one point the Yankees used Johnson on the mound as Ruth's day off.
This post was edited on 2/28/23 at 5:11 pm
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:11 pm to TigerintheNO
Cool stats, so how were they able to throw so much more than guys today?
Satchel has WAY more innings than recorded officially
Satchel has WAY more innings than recorded officially
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:11 pm to Tiger1242
They didn't pitch as much in their youth, they didn't pitch as hard as they do today, they only pitched during the season and during games, they didn't throw on the side because they didn't have off days.
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:12 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
It’s the incredible amount of pitches I’m talking about.
They didn't have to throw as hard or put as much torque on their elbows to get movement like guys now do.
Old Hoss Radbourn's 1884 stat line is my favorite.
60-12, 75 games, 73 starts, 73 complete games, 2 finished, 1 SV, 678.2 IP, 1.38 ERA, .922 WHIP.
He had a tie in there somewhere, and pitched the entirety of 73 out of 114 regular season games.
Then he went on to pitch every inning of their 3-game WS sweep, 3-0 of course with a 0.00 ERA and a .50 WHIP.
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:12 pm to Tiger1242
quote:
I understand why they have incredible stats. It’s the incredible amount of pitches I’m talking about.
His response to you was legit. Those things he stated allowed pitchers to succeed without having to really put max effort into a pitch.
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:15 pm to Tiger1242
Because in 1936 he left to go pitch overseas(Dominican Republic, Mexico, and Puerto Rico), didn't return to the Monarchs until the 1940 season.
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:19 pm to LSUBoo
quote:
60-12, 75 games, 73 starts, 73 complete games, 2 finished, 1 SV, 678.2 IP, 1.38 ERA, .922 WHIP.
Damn.
GOAT season for a pitcher, just on the stamina and still below 1.50 ERA alone.
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:23 pm to Keys Open Doors
You do realize that the new gun adds 2mph to velocity now right? Pitch mph used to be measured by how fast the ball was moving when it crossed home plate now it’s measured by the speed it leaves the pitchers hand. Sure there are more hard throwers now but the ball was moving plenty back in the day and the hitters were better. Anytime a league has to add rules because guys can’t bunt or go the other way tells you the hitting is watered down.
This post was edited on 2/28/23 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:33 pm to Tiger1242
The first answer that pops in my head is they weren't pussies like today. The closers used to come in the 7th and finish the game.
Nolan Ryan was just sticking his hand and arm in a barrel of rice working it. I know that's a smart-arse answer, but that's what I think.
Same thing with NBA players now. These dudes can't play a full game or season, and no one is beating on them like in the 80s/90s. I wish Lebron could play against the 90s Pistons.
Nolan Ryan was just sticking his hand and arm in a barrel of rice working it. I know that's a smart-arse answer, but that's what I think.
Same thing with NBA players now. These dudes can't play a full game or season, and no one is beating on them like in the 80s/90s. I wish Lebron could play against the 90s Pistons.
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:35 pm to Madking
quote:
You do realize that the new gun adds 2mph to velocity now right? Pitch mph used to be measured by how fast the ball was moving when it crossed home plate now it’s measured by the speed it leaves the pitchers hand. Sure there are more hard throwers now but the ball was moving plenty back in the day and the hitters were better. Anytime a league has to add rules because guys can’t bunt or go the other way tells you the hitting is watered down.
Anyone want to see a guy who has no idea what he is talking about?
Posted on 2/28/23 at 5:42 pm to mizzoubuckeyeiowa
quote:
ball would start turning black with mud, dirt, scuffs and tobacco juice.
Also Vaseline, crotch sweat, pine tar, etc.
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